Winston, dude, you really need new friends.
The closer you are to this guy, like in terms of in the same state, the worse it is for you. The daughter is a victim, graduating to perpetrator, the guy is a total sociopath, and mom is the lowest scumbag of all.
Hop on the bus, man.
Tris
If you know about something bad, you have an ethical duty to do what you can to stop it. If you run away, you are just as guilty as he is.
And some of you guys want to turn it the other way, and say unless he leaves it alone, he is immoral? WTF?
I’m not saying you have to do a lot, but there is a reason you feel like you have to do something. That’s your conscience. Tell the daughter, tell the mother just in case he’s lying, or just try to talk it out with him a little more. Whatever. Do something, or that guilt you feel will be real.
But I do commend you for not taking an insult to your character lying down, even risking Mod action if you didn’t. Sometimes judgmental people need to know what it feels like to be judged. Just don’t hold on to the unforgiveness for too long.
No. The blame for him being a scumbag is entirely his own. It’s not your spouse’s job to make you be a decent human being, it’s your job.
Did the mom make some mistakes? Hell yes. Looks like a lot of them. But ALL of the blame for HIS actions is HIS.
My advice is to start distancing yourself from them. There’s a point where friendship is useless.
In my case: I started working with a guy and we were very compatible, humor-wise. He even got me the job I have now. However, he started having serious problems with his wife. He called the police on her after she wouldn’t stop beating him. He said she beat him all the time, and the last time he stood outside the house in his underwear waiting for the cops. He said she would abuse him all the time and she tried to have an affair with her co-worker.
Then, I heard her side. He was diagnosed with manic depressive disorder aggravated by alcoholism and he tried to stab himself on their anniversary, so he spent it on suicide watch.
I haven’t talked to him in two years. The last time we went out, he was arrested for DUI and spent some time in jail. There’s a point where this shit isn’t worth the friendship.
I highly suggest you watch some episodes of Intervention on A&E. I think you’ll find a lot of people who have the same issues (bulimia, drug abuse, alcoholism) that this girl has. The vast majority of them have suffered some sort of abuse (usually sexual) that’s the root of the issue.
She’s the hot-mess? Your friend sounds pretty out there as well, wanting to sleep with his pseudo step daughter.
What’t to lose? His situation doesn’t sound too envious to me. Got a girlfriend that’s never around and doesn’t apparently have any feelings for considering his current infatuation. And his current love interest wants him locked up.
I’d tell him to go for it. The outcome can’t be any worse than his current life.
You’re right. He’s no prize himself. But again you’re seeing this from a much different perspective than I am. From your perspective, he’s the one that seems the most messed up, because within the context of this thread he’s the center of attention and controversy.
IRL (upon which my perspective is founded), I’ve known him a very long time and about the worse I could say about him before all this was that he smoked too much weed and (maybe) drank too much. She was already a hot mess when I met her, and I didn’t have any reason to suspect that he had any part in making her that way. It’s taking me a bit of time to reconcile what’s going on, and honestly it’s not easy.
He’s her parent. She is his daughter.
If she is a hot mess at this young of an age, it is probably his fault. I’ve known a few people who have become screwed up young for other reasons- such as attachment issues stemming from adoption or sexual abuse from someone other than a parent. But mostly, when a teen is abusing drugs, acting out sexually, having eating disorders and endangering herself and others (DUIs, etc.) it is because she grew up in a screwed-up household that didn’t give her the love and guidance she needed to mature into a normal young adult. Given that he is seeing that his daughter is having major problems and is not seeking help, but rather giving her drugs and trying to have sex with her, I really don’t think it’s a huge leap of logic to say he is a big part of this.
I don’t care if Mumsie was equally screwed up. He’s known this girl since she was ten years old and at times has been the primary care giver. He took that responsibility. He needed to step up. He instead decided to think with his dick, ignore what it means to be a part of a family, and probably screwed up this girl’s life.
Your friend is bad. He may be nice. He may be fun. But he’s a bad guy. He makes decisions, on purpose, that hurt others. If you are still having trouble picturing this, picture it someone in your own family. Do you have a sister or niece or something? If her father was trying to fuck her, would you be so calm about it?
What even sven said. Squared.
I agree that this is a serious situation. I do not agree that Winston Smith is being innapropriately blasé about the whole thing. He seems pretty upset and is just trying to process all this.
I’m with olivesmarch4th. Winston Smith, having been friends from childhood with a guy who seemed pretty normal, is having his entire worldview challenged. Tying to figure out what he *should *do, let alone what he *can *do for Friend, The Girlfriend and HotMess isn’t going to be easy.
Good on you for not just walking away from it all, Winston Smith. I only wish I had some useful advice for you.
I agree with this, too. I’m sure the journey from “He’s my best bud!” to “He’s a big bag of dysfunction and I may have to (insert resolution here)” can’t be an easy one.
Oh it’s not too hard to predict. He makes a pass, daughter tells mom, mom kicks him out then takes him back a few weeks later, daughter moves to a different state and can’t figure out why she can’t make any of her relationships work for the rest of her life. He makes a pass, something happens, daughter accuses him of rape, no one knows who to believe because ‘she’s a hot mess’ and even her mother isn’t on her side. He makes a pass, she rejects him, cleans up her act and confronts him five years later with tales of earlier abuse. He makes a pass, they regularly have sex, she gets pregnant, he hangs around until their daughter hits puberty, repeat. He makes a pass, they have sex, she leaves the state and gets into harder drugs, he sends her money and they occasionally have depressing sex in bad motel rooms, she ODs. So many possibilities.
So she’s not good enough for him? She’s going to ruin his life?
I’m shocked so many people think this guy actually has any chance in hell of nailing this girl.
A generally stable hot 20-year-old? Probably not a good chance. But, as a 21-year-old girl with pervy relatives, and someone who has seen some beautiful young friends choose some really inappropriate partners, I think that the absent mom and the creepy stepdad probably make her feel worthless and means her standards are lower. Add in the influence of drugs and I really think it might happen/already has.
According to the OP the only thing that’s already happened is the girl already turned him down once and told her mom. Just because she’s slutty and messed up doesn’t mean she’ll bang a creepy old guy, I’m sure she’s quite busy making horrible life decisions with guys closer to her own age that she at least finds sexually appealing.
Yes, and her Mom responded by … leaving her slutty drug-addled daughter alone to fend off her pervy and enabling step-dad. Nice. Sure she can score sex, drugs and attention from younger and hotter men, but what better way for a hot mess to kick Mom in the teeth than to fuck Mom’s boyfriend?
I think he has a chance to finish ruining his life by trying. Hers too.
Face it, if this was an ordinary mid-life crisis, Winston Smith’s weed-smoking friend would be buying a snazzy sports car and trying to nail a nice undergraduate. The fact that he’s trying to stick his dick in the crazy, quite possibly the very crazy he helped create, means that Friend is as probably only a *little less *fucked up than poor HotMess.
In this version of the storey, Friend has no way to be either the victim or the hero. He’s just out on the skinny end of a limb and sawing fast. I’d feel a tiny bit sorry for the poor bastard if his object of desire wasn’t his stepdaughter, but just some random clerk at the bakery/coworker/whoever. That’s a mostly normal reaction to turning 40. Friend passed normal a while ago and is not looking back. No matter how messed up she is, I can’t have sympathy for anyone here but HotMess and Winston Smith.
Don’t you have any standards at all for the people you choose to call friends? Legalities and her current “hot messness” aside, he’s trying to bone a psychologically vulnerable girl he raised from 10, who is effectively a step-daughter to him, and he’s going about it this goal strategically and methodically, feeding her drugs and enabling her worst tendencies. and keeps working at what he needs to do to maximize her accessibility and optimize his chances. The ethical difference between him and the neighborhood pedophile scouring Gamestop for the most attractive enticements is barely a millimeter.
You describe him sympathetically as a poor lost soul while the behavior you describe is quasi-incestual sexual predator/lunatic crazy turned up to 11, and when people are repelled and tell you to you pull the plug or out him, you keep bleating “But I’ve known him a looong time, he’s my BFF!”, etc. etc. Your “but he’s my buddy” excuses for this weirdness are disgusting.