Sexual obsession & mid-life crisis; this can't end well

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
121

I really don’t care what the background story is here (and it seems really, out-of-the-park messed up) but the real issue is what YOU feel. Obviously you’re not okay with it, you’ve expressed your concerns and have been largely ignored (by him).

IMHO, you should lay down the law and say something like, “I cherish our friendship but this is making me very uncomfortable and you don’t seem to be the person I love and respect anymore. Either get your shit together or get out of my life.”

People change, and sometimes for the worse. By continuing to be his friend (with the knowledge you have), you’re implicitly condoning it. He doesn’t think there are going to be consequences to his actions but if you make it clear that he is going to lose you as a friend if he does something so egregious, then you can, at the very minimum, take the moral high ground.

Right now, your waffling just makes you look terrible. I don’t care how long you’ve known this guy…you look terrible by association.

122

I disagree with most posters. I think Friend is just as much, or even more so, the victim of Hot Mess then the other way around.

Whatever the cause, right now she is seducing him. She sounds like suffering from Borderline Personality disorder (remember the recent threads about Borderline? With the typical Borderline young woman, especially if she’s attractive, leaving a smoking trail of ravaged relationships and ruined lives?) And if she’s suffering form Borderline, her past with him or with other men may have worsened her messed-up ness, but it hasn’t caused it. People with borderline personality disorder get born into nice families with good parents all the time.

What she can do to him?

  • Get him in jail and get him the label of sex offender for the rest of his life. He is deluding himself if he thinks the won’t do that. Being in a tight spot (like the DUI incident where she put the blame on him) will be enough. Resentment will be enough, hell, even him clearly telling her she shoudl move out or stop seducing him might be enough to get her to scream rape and get him arrested. Hell hath no fury, yada yada. Sure, she will regret it later but he will still be locked up and branded a sex-offender for life. Can sex-offenders nowadays still get jobs, get married or ever have custody of kids again these days?
  • Mess him up in his head for about the next decade. Right now, he can maintain he is still in the clear. All he did was flirt with her (is is still a man, and men have urges, and it is not like they’re blood kin, right?), be a cool enabler dad, helped his step-daughter with what she needed while Girlfriend was absent. And he got into shape and lost some weight. Right?
    No, wrong. He lost whatever peace of mind he has into a whirlwind of obession. Even if the situation dissolved now, and the obeseesed fog would lift, he would get hit by the crazy of the situation and see the precipice he nearly stepped in. He might call himself all the names he has been called in the thread and worse. He has known this girl for ten years, but the next ten years of his life (and they could be the best years of his life) could very well be spent part in jail, part in nerve-wracking guilt and self-disgust. While on the other hand, the girl, judging by her callous disregard for his situation now, will have no qualms in labellign himself as the victim and him as the perp and use that to clear her conscience (if she has any) to wreak more havoc the next two decades. I can already see the string of boyfriends she will use and bewilder who won’t blame her, but will blame her “abusing step dad”, so , Friend.

What can he do to her?

  1. Stop enabling her w.r.t. living space (how is this 20 year old even living at home and not getting the usual flack for it? Only losers still live at home etc. Shouldn’t she be at some college or living on her own with a job?). If he stops doing that, she will have found a new enabler-boyfriend in under two months. I would bet money on this.
  2. Have sex with her and mess her up even more. While that might harm a girl who is, fundamentally, a decent and psychologically healthy like our olives, I doubt it would harm Hot Mess any more then she is already messed up. Borderlines take these kind of messed up relationships in stride, where they first idolize and then demonize their partners.
    3… crickets.

Bottom line: She can harm him much deeper then he can harm her.

Now, what can Friend do? What can Winston do?

First of all, do not abandon your friend. He needs you, and you are probably the only one he can still talk to. An dhe needs to talk, to hear himself, so he can hear how near the precipice he is. If he hasn’t got you to talk to, all that is left is the conversation between him and Hot Mess, in which e-maisl requesting what other girl he would like for his threesome are a normal thing. Be clear to him how you think he is in terrible danger, and refuse to go along in his fantasy world of cool dad having a harmless flirt and and an essentially harmless (if a little perverty) fantasy life.

Second, Friend needs a breather, time to come to his senses. Preferably not some intervention that sets the whole situation off. I’m afraid putting firm boundaries will just set the situation off, and put everyone in blaming mode. So, a Jerry Springer situation, just off camera.
My recommendation would be that he offers Hot Mess a vacation trip “to have fun with people her own age”. My bet is that Hot Mess will gladly accept it. Because while she does relish the power over her stepdad, she will be glad to string the situation out a little longer and have some fun in the meantime. Let Friend spend money on this, it will be life-saving money for him. Best situation outcome, Hot Mess will stay longer in her Indian ashram or her Israeli Kibbuts or whatever kind of hippie resort or summer course Spanish to “find herself”. I would try and find a place where she can stay a while, with the possibility to stay even longer, not just go backpacking or camping.

While Hot Mess is away from home, and not clouding Friends mind as much, Winston and Friend need to meet and talk this out. Friend must take this seriously. He might need to change his life over this. He may have to move out of Girlfriends home, and perhaps sell the house and move to where Girlfriend currently lives, if he loves her enough for that. It Or he might need to go live with other friends or relatives and build a new life there. I know a bit about where he is at. While I am a woman, I have done my share of Obsessed Mid-life crisis Infatuation with an unsuitable man. In fact, that man called me yesterday from re-hab, where he was locked in after a suicide attemtp following a two-day wodka drinking binge.

Best of luck, Winston. Don’t abandon your friend.

123

You said in the OP that Hot Mess was gone for two months and Friend missed her so much it only increased his infatuation. Unfortunately, when someone is this infatuated, he needs to be separated from the object of his infatuation for at least 2 years. All shorter absences will only make his heart grow fonder. Infatuation (not love) is an incredible strong biological force and if your friend only has his willpower to fight it, he will lose, as sure as the sun sets in the west. He will need both pushes and pulls to get away from Hot Mess. Logic or morality will not help. Friend also needs to educate himself on the nature of infatuation and how it differs from love or flirting.

If he does nothing, the fallout of the affair with Hot Mess will be what drives them apart. If the shit hits the fan, and it will, he won’t see her ever again. So it is inevitable, that he will have to seperated from Hot Mess eventually. But he and everyone else will be a lot less hurt if he does it on his own terms. And that is where the pulls come in. He needs something, some light in the dark, something to hope for and to work towards, instead of jsut the flirt and sex time with Hot Mess.

So that is why I suggested the holiday for Hot Mess. I really, really hope she will stay at that ashram or kibbutz longer then two months, so she will give him time to build a life away from her. If she stays away a year, that will be a year off his detox time.

So, what can help him bridge the two years needed to get over Hot Mess?

  1. Not see her in the meantime. No. Contact. At. All. If he sees her at Thanksgiving with Girlfriend, or even e-mails her, he’s back to square one and the two year period starts counting again. He needs to go cold-turkey. That means he might have to break up with Girlfriend, because it isn’t realistic that he will be able to avoid Hot Mess completely. The only way that is going to happen is if Girlfriend understands the situation and will keep them apart. That doesn’t seem likely, based on her lukewarm response so far.

  2. He might dramatically shorten his cold-turkey period by getting infatuated with someone else. Right now, Girlfriend isn’t much of a wife to him. He could do bettter. He might take solace in the fact that men of 40, especially if they have shaped up a bit recently, are in great demand on dating sites. If I were in Winston’s shoes, I would drag Friends ass to a dating site just to “test the waters” so he could see that there ARE other options for him besides Hot Mess and Absent Neglecting Girlfriend. Just make a couple nice pictures of him and post them in a test profile, and browse the profiles of the ladies. Friend could have hot sex, romance and loving companionshop, financial support from a wife in her 40’s established in her career. He could even a family of his own. The next ten years could be the freaking best years of his life. *If *he won’t let Hot Mess wreck them for him so he spends them in jail and as a homeless, unemployed social pariah instead.

  3. He could focus on himself and on what he wants, instead of focusing on Hot Mess. A midlife crisis is as good a place to start this as any. What dreams does he have for himself in terms of job, interests, hobbies? Does he want t travel? To live somewhere else? Play an instrument? Change something about himself? Get in a real relationship?

124

One final word. The only ally Friend has in this matter, besides Winston, could, pradoxically, be Hot Mess herself.
Friend could do a Romantic Doomed Lover Break Up with her, tinged with Fatherly tones. It is done all the time in vampire movies like Twilight and romance novels likeVirginia Andrews. So it should be a familiar concept to Hot Mess. Hot Mess even might be delighted to go along this scenarion, relishing the romance of it all, so she won’t feel attacked and need to attack pre-emptively back.

“My dearest Mess”, Friend would have to say,“This flirting we’ve done and which you, in your youthful white skinned innocence have gone along with, has gone too far. I’m a man, I have developed strong feelings, and I’m afraid that if this will go on, you may get hurt. I am your father and you need to be safe with me. I don’t want that you to get hurt by what may happen, my dearest Mess. Also, I don’t want this for me. People will only see me as a pervert or worse, and I could get thrown in jail, lose my wife, lose my job, lose my life.
You, Mess, have done nothing wrong, (important to say this or she starts blame assigning) but you don’t know the power you have over me. As hard a decision it is, I need to be apart from you. I really need you to give me the time to recover from the impact you made on me. Also, you need to spend time to yourself to have fun with friends your own age. So I wanted to give you , as an ealy or late birthday present, this trip to…”.

Then when Hot Mess e-mails him a Lolcat, or perseveres in contacting him, he can repeat in a pained voice that it is too painful for him and that he needs to leave him to get over her.

125

I found a better link with which Friend can educate himself on the nature of his feelings: Wikipedia on limererence, or infatuation.

126

I think a love letter from your stepfather is really REALLY creepy.

Just reading your suggested template, however well intended Maastricht, made me nauseous.

Truly.

Maybe not such a good idea…

127

Who mentioned love letters? Friend should have a talk (NOT a letter!) with Hot Mess stating he has (non-specified !) “strong feelings” due to “all the flirting that has gone around” that are “inappropriate and harmful” and that therefore he needs to build in some physical distance from her, ie her going on a trip.

If Hot Mess has already sent Friend an e-mail asking him which of her friends he would pick for the threesome she planned for his birthday, such a talk is a considerate step in the direction of Sane County, I’d say.

Most posters see Friend as a predator. That may have to do with the taboo on child molestation in the US being so much stronger that it almost precludes a practical approach to limiting the damage it does. I see Friend as someone in the strangling crush of an inappropriate infatuation or, as it is called when it strikes adults, limerence.

Friend needs advice on what he is going through and what he can do about it. Not moral outrage. If only because moral outrage won’t help prevent the suffering of any of the people in this drama.

128

wat

129

Well, you it seems:

Written, I’d assumed; but spoken? Maybe even worse. “…youthful white skinned innocence…?” “…the power you have over me…?” “…give me time to recover from the impact you made on me…?”

From your stepfather?!?!

130

Okay, you are right, that sentence would be totally creepy if uttered in RL. :slight_smile:
I got carried away thinking how cheesy romance novelists like Virginia Andrews or Twilight - vampire porn Stephanie Meyers would have written this, and tried to make a light hearted pastiche of it, aptly named the Romantic Doomed Lover Break-Up manouver.

Okay, here is what Friend could say, literally.

-Mess, I need to talk to you about something important. Can we talk?
-Okay, this is going to be awkward, but bear with me. Remember that e-mail you sent me about a threesome for my birthday?
-Well, I know it was all fun and games, but really, I thought about it some more and I really don’t think we should talk like that anymore. Flirting I mean, and me behaving more like your friend then your stepfather.
-and frankly, and this is going to be even more awkward, sometims that flirting we do, and I did it as well as you, confuses me too. I’m your dad, but I am also a man, and’I’m with your mom, and you are not a kid or a teenager anymore but an grown attractive woman, and flirting like that just messes up how it should be between us, which is me being your stepdad and you being my stepdaughter, okay? You know I like you and love you, and I don’t want that feeling to get out of hand for me. Which it might do if we keep flirting, okay? So I think it is best if I keep some more distance from now on, for my sake.
-No mess, I’m not going to say anymore about that, but I’m serious. I really want to spend some serious time apart form you and sepnd more time with mom.
-and if you love me and want the best for me, for your mom and for yourself, just treat me like your stepdad.
-and in fact, I think all of this would be easier if I didn’t see you for a while. So how about you have some fun time with friends and other young people? How about your mom and me paying a trip for you to …

131

I’m not waffling, not in the slightest. I’ve been consistent and firm with my friend, trying to set him straight.

I think your aloof judgementalism makes you look worse than my (non-existent) waffling.

132

I think you may have confused that whole threesome situation Maastricht; it appears that the mother has been emailing Hot Mess’ friends wanting to know if any of them are interested in a threesome with her (the fucked up mother) and the fucked up friend for his 40th.

In my opinion, none of the suggested things to say in your last post constitute an appropriate conversation for a stepfather to have with his stepdaughter.

The words “flirting” and “father” should never been seen or heard in the same sentence.

Really. I mean, really. They. just. shouldn’t.

“I’m your dad and I’m also a man…?” That’s just gut churning for every daughter out there.

133

Yes, astro, I do have very high standards for friendship and this man has suddenly and seriously sunk so far below those standards that I’ve resorted to discussing it on an internet message board, while I determine what (if anything) I can do to help him and the rest of the people involved in this.

Perhaps some day you will have a time of difficulty and need someone to turn to. I hope not, but if that day does come, I hope you have a friend like me, and not a friend like you.

134

Jeez Winston Smith - I don’t know why you’re giving Sue Duhnym such a hard time:

And should I ever have a time of difficulty and need someone to turn to, I hope to have a friend like astro to give me a great big kick up the arse while smacking me across the head with bit o’ four-be-two.

135

Me too.

136

But she’s clearly NOT interested, like 99.99% of girls in that situation.

137

Me too.
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So be that kind of friend then.

138

By the way, in the intervening time between now and when I made that post, it has occurred to me that I’m not responsible for any of this, and my ethical and moral obligations have been met by counseling my friend to desist. That’s not to say I don’t feel compelled to action. I’ll continue to try to set him straight, and probably distance myself a little bit as I really don’t want to be in the splash zone when this whale hits the water.

139

I missed the edit window:

So be that kind of friend then. Rather than acting like a child and making remarks like that.

Nobody denies that this is a complex situation Winston Smith.

Unfortunately, when you make snarky comments like the one above, and your replies to Sue Duhnym, and **astro, **it implies that you don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with it. If I recognised that I was ill equipped for a certain job, I would step back from it. Both to not inadvertently make it worse, and to protect myself.

It appears that this situation is akin to an horrific car crash and you’re wanting to be the ambulance driver; when maybe your best self is suited to being the caring, flower-bearing hospital visitor.

140

Exactly. I hope you feel better about what your role in this as a friend is now.

Remind yourself to not consider yourself a failure as a friend if all your well-intentioned advices are not heeded. Sometimes people have got to come to a conclusion on their own.