I’m over 27 years old.
I don’t believe in the bible. Period.
I’m not christian or religious.
**I’m attacking jewish culture, religion and nationality bcause I beelieve that part of it’s racistic. Perhaps fundamental parts.
I’m counting down the minutes until this thread gets moved to the pit (again!) or closed…
These millenia old lies about the Jewish people are
just the kind of ignorance that the Straight Dope was created to fight.
1 Before Passover, the celebration of the exodus from Egypt, first-born-males fast to remember the deaths of the last plague. The Haggadah, the prayer book containing the Passover service, reminds us many times that the Egyptians were also God's children and that we should be saddened by the suffering and death they experienced.
2 The Talmud assures us that all righteous people may share in heaven-Jew, gentile, Invisible-Pink-Unicorn worshippers etc.
3 As Izzy has said, there are plenty of people who hate themselves and their heritage. Mostly they turn up on Springer, wearing hoods and wanting to be the first Jews in the KKK. Sadly, sometimes they also write books.
On a side note-Izzy would you be willing to start a "Ask The Talmud Guy" thread?Why deny the holocaust if you are in favor of finishing what Hitler started?
Baltazar: You never really answered my question in the Pit. Your reply then, and your reply here, has been that your personal experience supports Shahak’s views. That’s not really an answer, when I asked for evidence. Perhaps you could try going into a little more detail on this experience of yours. And after that, I’d like to see something of a less subjective nature, like has been requested by other posters in this incarnation of this thread.
Extreme views may not always require extreme evidence, but they do require more than you’ve provided. And lest it be in doubt ( though from the “welcome” you’ve received, I don’t see how it could be ), this is an extreme view.
Frankly, you’ve already been rebutted, both directly and by link. If you are defending the views expressed in this book review ( and it appears to be obvious you came in here with some level of support for this stuff ), then I’d like to see a response to those rebuttals. Have they altered your opinion? If not, why not?
Of course if you are just trolling, never mind.
- Tamerlane
Then how about acting it instead of the display of 10-12 year old behavior. Adults, especially those with critical reading skills, have learned to support and defend theses.
Then what’s got you uptight against Judaism? For someone who doesn’t believe in the Bible, it’s kind of odd that the only reference you can find is a site called “Biblebelievers.” ::rollseyes::
As has been asked already: What brings you to that conclusion besides ONE unsupported tome?
Note to Mods: When’s this getting moved to the Pit?
Not jews in general.
From chapter 5:
(3) Lost property. If a Jew finds property whose probable owner is Jewish, the finder is strictly enjoined to make a positive effort to return his find by advertising it publicly. In contrast, the Talmud and all the early rabbinical authorities not only allow a Jewish finder to appropriate an article lost by a Gentile, but actually forbid him or her to return it.48 In more recent times, when laws were passed in most countries making it mandatory to return lost articles, the rabbinical authorities instructed Jews to do what these laws say, as an act of civil obedience to the state - but not as a religious duty, that is without making a positive effort to discover the owner if it is not probable that he is Jewish.
(6) Theft and robbery. Stealing (without violence) is absolutely forbidden - as the Shulhan 'Arukh so nicely puts it: ‘even from a Gentile’. Robbery (with violence) is strictly forbidden if the victim is Jewish. However, robbery of a Gentile by a Jew is not forbidden outright but only under certain circumstances such as ‘when the Gentiles are not under our rule’, but is permitted ‘when they are under our rule’
Gentiles in the Land of lsrael
The exact geographical definition of the term ‘Land of Israel’ is much disputed in the Talmud and the talmudic literature, and the debate has continued in modern times between the various shades of zionist opinion. According to the maximalist view, the Land of Israel includes (in addition to Palestine itself) not only the whole of Sinai, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, but also considerable parts of Turkey.(Interesting)
Murder and Genocide
ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH religion, the murder of a Jew is a capital offense and one of the three most heinous sins (the other two being idolatry and adultery). Jewish religious courts and secular authorities are commanded to punish, even beyond the limits of the ordinary administration of justice, anyone guilty of murdering a Jew. A Jew who indirectly causes the death of another Jew is, however, only guilty of what talmudic law calls a sin against the ‘laws of Heaven’, to be punished by God rather than by man.
When the victim is a Gentile, the position is quite different. A Jew who murders a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, **not punishable by a court.**1 To cause indirectly the death of a Gentile is no sin at all.2
PRAYERS
Let us begin with the text of some common prayers. In one of the first sections of the daily morning payer, every devout Jew blesses God for not making him a Gentile.59 The concluding section of the daily prayer (which is also used in the most solemn part of the service on New Year’s day and on Yom Kippur) opens with the statement: 'We must praise the Lord of all … for not making us like the nations of [all] lands … for they bow down to vanity and nothingness and pray to a god that does not help.
OK. Here’s how a debate works [I won’t even call it a Great Debate, because frankly it sucks donkeys]: andygirl, IzzyR, sdimbert, and myself [sorry if I missed someone] all make points or question the veracity of your argument. You are supposed to address these statements to the best of your ability. Instead you have just stated your age and your assurance that you are not radical nor religious. You are a trolling anti-Semitic goose-stepping grand inquisitor.
So, do you have any sources other than this guy’s book, mebbe? The simplest answer to your question is “No, it’s not true. Shahak is taking it all out of context and ignoring the facts that contradict him”.
I was about to apologize, thinking you had actually thought out some arguments. Alas, you are cutting and pasting from the exact same book review!. We read it. It’s linked in the OP. I want examples of these activities being carried out, evidence from other credible sources, evidence from the primary source and not biblebeliever.com’s slanted review of it. Does any of this make sense?
Baltazar,
One last time.
I am going to say this slowly: I DON’T CARE WHAT THAT BOOK SAYS. If you want to seriously engage in debate here, you’re going to need more than one source.
I suspect that one of the following is true:
[list=1]
[li]You have no other sources and are afraid to admit it.[/li][li]You lack the mental capacity to wrap your head around the way we do things here.[/li][li]You are not seriously interested in debate.[/li][/list=1]
If any of these are the case, please do us all the favor of just going away.
Easy Waverly. I understand the annoyance, but don’t let yourself get chastized by the mods over something this inane 
. There’s always the Pit.
Baltazar: I’ll let someone more knowledgeable about the Talmud than me respond to your specific points ( though I may try to find a refutation on the web, if I can ). But I’ll note that you’re just quoting from your single source, not providing corraborating evidence to support it, as has been requested.
- Tamerlane
My I remind you that Shahak is a 68 year old professor who survived the Holocaust.
He’s not likely the kind of person who would turn up in Jerry Springer show.
And he’s also a drooling idiot. what’s your point?
[Moderator Hat ON]
Well, you ARE going to get chastized for something this inane, because you apparently lack the self-control to respond as appropriate to this forum. Calling someone names is an even worse attempt at debate than Baltazar’s.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
I respectfully withdraw this unneeded ad hominem. I should have let Baltazar’s own attitude speak for itself.
I do however think that the Talmud can be interpreted in more than one way.
There’s difference between liberals and orthodox.
[sub]Once again, I violate my personal code and venture into the GD forum. Maybe someday I’ll learn better.[/sub]
This sounds vaguely like the Sh’ma, but it’s a pretty funky misinterpretation of it. Sh’ma Yisroel: Adonai eloheinu, Adonai echad. Baruch shem k’vod malchuto leolam va’ed. Translated, this is “Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord is One. Blessed is his glorious kingdom forever and ever.”
The story behind this blessing is that Jacob (who was also called Israel) was worried in his old age that his sons would lose touch with tradition and faith when they went to Egypt (this is part of the story of Joseph). The prayer is Jacob’s sons affirming their solidarity with the religion and customs of their father. Nothing more, nothing less. Every religion has something similar, AFAIK.
[sub]That was quick. Now let me out of here. I gotta go back to MPSIMS where it’s safe.[/sub]
And you do not know what those differences are.
Would you like to learn?
I suspected this loong before I by accident came over shahak.
He confirmed my deepest fear and suspicions of what Judayism and jewish nationalism really was. It’s true face was revealed.
.