Well, it’s more that you don’t consider the possibility that what he writes may be false. If you’re going to say “What he says is true”, you need evidence from somebody other than him. There’s no rule saying that just because a person says something, it’s true.
No, no, no, no, no.
You still don’t get it.
I don’t consider the possibility of his conclusions being true because I already know that they aren’t.
Unless you can show me corroborative evidence that outweighs the years and years I’ve spent immersed in Jewish Study, I’m going to continue to know that his conclusions are spurious.
If a certain someone had bothered to do some research he may have found an anecdote offered by Shahak to explain his stance:
So did I find the compelling evidence that I had been asking for since this debate originated in the depths of the pit? Well, at least something worthy of debate, but it takes a great acrobatic leap of hatred to condemn all Jews based on this anecdote. And keep in mind that is an anecdote. There is also quite bit missing from the story. Was the man OK? Presumably, or Shahak would undoubtedly have mentioned it. Did someone else offer to make the call? Would the first person have relented had help not been forthcoming? We simply don’t know. It may be true that taken literally, the ancient Talmudic law is xenophobic, but how many take and apply it so literally? I’ll spare everyone the tedium of retelling bible tales that would be disturbing if taken literally.
Of note is the fact that modern Israeli law does not distinguish between Jews and gentiles [surprise]. What’s more, placed in it’s proper context in time and location, the gentiles mentioned in the ancient laws were generally at war with the Jewish peoples. Does context matter? Consider this: In York it is still legal to kill a Scotsman with bow… excepting Sundays. Is this an indicator of past hatred? Yes. Is it reason to mistrust the British? No.
You don’t even see the flaw there, do you? You admit to supreme ignorance of Jews and Judaism, and yet you demand and end to naïvety.
Educate yourself, dammit!!!
Baltazar
Maybe you haven’t >met< any Jews, but I’ll betcha you’ve eaten more than one kosher item in the last month without even knowing it.
[/cackle] eh-eh-eh [/cackle off]
[Haley Joel Osment]
I see Jewish people . . .
[/Haley Joel Osment]
Not quite; we don’t consider that his ideas may be true if he is the only source for those claims.
Or, to put it another way, I can say that I’m the king of the world and that everyone must obey me, but unless I’ve got something to support that claim besides my saying so, nobody here would believe it. And they shouldn’t.
(Not to wander into Pit territory here, but it’s folks like you that test my will in the fight against ignorance…)
Well, but Rjung, he wrote a book and all, so… I mean, you know somebody wouldn’t write something unless it were true.
I might also add, in light of WAVERLY’s post, that the ultra-Orthodox Jewish Israelis are no more the only example of Jews (or Judaism) than ultra-fundamentalist Christians are the only example of Christians (or Christianity).
There are extremely conservative fringes of almost every major religion. The beliefs of such people cannot safely be imputed to everyone else in their religion. So even if Shahak’s theories were correct – and there is no proof that they are – you could not safely apply his conclusions to all of Judaism or all of Israel.
And yet, you’ve formed your opinions based on your “observations the last 10-12 years” and that you’ve “gotten less sympathy for them over the last 7-9 year or so).” So what “observations” are you basing your opinions on?
Where do you live that, as a 27-year-old, you have never met any Jews?
:eek:
What’s wrong with us? Hmmm…if you call condemning anti-Semitism wrong…
You have posted one book review from a rabidly anti-Jewish web site with a few quotes that may or may not be in context from a book written by a Jew who has one perspective of the Jewish experience based exclusively on his personal reactions to living in Israel.
If you wander over to the U.S. - The evil empire thread you will find several U.S. citizens saying very similar things about the U.S.–and a number of U.S. citizens opposing that sort of position.
Based on the “logic” you have thus demonstrated, we must conclude that only the anti-American sentiments are honest and valid while the pro-American sentiments must be merely cover-up of the True American Agenda.
You have also claimed that “your experience” confirms the opinions found in the book review, although you have provided no evidence that you have any experience beyond your acknowledgment that you are not (knowingly) acquainted with any Jews.
If you would like for this to be a debate, or even a discussion, then you must provide more for your position than simply claiming that this single book review by an anti-Jewish hate group of a single book by one disaffected Jew provides Truth. I would be willing to accept that several incidents in the book may have occurred (even as Shahak described them). People are no damned good and you can find hatred and despicable actions and beliefs among any group of people. For you to make a substantial argument, however, you need to provide a record of a clear pattern of behavior and thought from more than one source.
(I fail to see how the Jews could be plotting the submission of the whole world to their nefarious plots when Jack Chick has assured me that it is the hierarchy of the Catholic Church that is so engaged. There is a good “single source” for information. Jack actually claims to have been a Catholic at one time, too.)
In other words, when you asked in the thread title “Is this true?” the answer is a resounding “No. No, it is not.”
It’s clear, my friend, that you have no interest in learning one damned thing here.
And I’m sorry for you.
I tried to tell him that in the pit (the first thread), but I guess he didn’t listen.
Are you kidding me?? What is this ridiclousness? Haven’t you heard of the statement, “If the Jews weren’t busy fighting others, they would fight each other.” And Shahak is a prime example. The Jews would attack each other just as voiceferously, or more, than they attack any other group. I ought to know. I was in a college in which 70% of the students are Jewish. Mmm the backbiting they do on each other and on famous Jewish people still rings in my ears. In my experience, I find them to be highly self-critical, even in areas where they shouldn’t be.
I have had the unfortunate experience hearing about Jewish people blaming the Holocaust on their own people, thinking that if they would have done more to work to stem the runaway inflation and misery plaguing Germany during the 1920’s, Hitler and Goebbles would not have risen to power. This is akin to a woman blaming herself for sexually used or abused, because she might have unintentionally turned the assailant on.
Acording to Balt’s profile, he’s located in western
Europe. I didn’t think it was possible to live there for 27 years and not see a Jew. Then again, depending on the country B’s in perhaps all the Jews are keeping quiet due to pogroms.
Baltazar, just what counrty are you in? My entire neighborhood is filled with Jews from western Europe. I'm sure I can find some who came from your country and can supply me with information on the size and visibility of the Jewish population.
On a side note- I confess to the Jewish conspiracy. We will take over the world. Every street will be required to hava a kosher deli. The Elders of Zion will end world hunger-bagels, gefilte fish, and brisket will be free for the asking. Barbara Streissand's head will be added to Mt Rushmore. And everyone will be legally required to call their mama once a day.Does this mean you’ve gotten around to reading the whole book?
I tell ya, one day I’m finally gonna get around to writing my masterwork, Protocols of the Elders of Des Moines for times just like this.
You know, if those are the results of the Jews taking over the world, I can live with it. I’d love to have a kosher deli close by. Heck, I’d settle for a koser deli within 10 miles. I will pass on the gefilte fish, though, and concentrate on the brisket instead. And as long as you’re talking about Barbara Streisand’s actual head, I’m all for that, too.
Please do. I am interested in learning more about that bit in the Talmud about Jews being thieves. Also, I was under the impression that Jews didn’t believe in a literal Heaven, and I am curious to know what kind of afterlife they do believe in, if any.
ROFLMAO! Another perfectly good keyboard destroyed by transnasal coffee. I was going to say, up until the Streisand thing I was going to just passively accept the Jewish takeover, but I wouldn’t stand for that. But with your spin on it, I say it can’t happen soon enough. 