It was Ecmandu, who only participated in one thread (that he started) about how he “solved” ethics. It was much on teh crazy and misogyny… I for one wouldn’t mind him stopping in to say hi just so we know it wasn’t him out there in IV.
Rodger’s crimes weren’t caused by the Men’s Rights Movement. However, that doesn’t let the MRA off the hook. They provided a forum where his views found validation, where women are considered, at best, always chaotic evil, and, at worst, sub-human animals to be broken, trained, and used. He could have posted the worst of his ramblings on these sites, and not a single participant would have said “uh . . . that’s a little too much, dude. You need to dial it back.” Many of them are so virulently hateful, they are tracked by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
The word ‘misogyny’ gets tossed around a lot, but I think this is one instance where it is the very best description possible. Rodger’s hated women. All women. Every woman. He hated them in a manner that can only be described as mentally deranged and completely at odds with reality.
Now, I’m sure that most of the people who post at MRA sites and vent their spleen actually find his behavior horrifying. I’m sure they never intended for one of their members to pick up some guns and start killing random bystanders. But that’s the thing. The kind of language they use - dehumanizing, objectifying, and vengeful - isn’t read just by the everyday cynic or jade. It’s read by individuals who are a fraction of an inch from running amuk and just need a nudge. Well, those sites and others like them don’t limit themselves to a nudge.
In the end, it really didn’t matter than Rodgers was a virgin at 22. He could have been having sex every day and twice on Sunday, and he would have railed that his partner wasn’t good enough for him, or that not enough women were willing to satisfy him, or that they didn’t satisfy him in the right way. He still would have been a hateful, twisted madman. I he hadn’t focused on women, he might have aimed his hate at Jews, or gays and lesbians, or black people, or immigrants. He might still have found a site to spew his homicidal, narcissistic fantasies, and he still might have found an audience that encouraged him. He happened to latch on to his lack of sexual activity and turn that into the axiom of his malign mental construct.
So, yes, I hold the MRA sites he visited partially responsible. They are malignant and hateful, and they should be called out on it. If he were an anti-Semetic or a member of the KKK, I would hold those sites just as responsible. It’s just that doing so wouldn’t be considered controversial.
The biggest irony, to me, is that for all Rodger’s stated hatred of women and drive to destroy as many as he could, it looks like his victims included at least a few men. That’s what misogynists, racists, homophobes, and zealots don’t get: you can’t unleash that kind of hatred on the world and not take a few of your ‘own’ out with the ones you hate.
It’s not that easy. In fact, it’s practically impossible.
When I was teaching, I had a young man in my class who was a diagnosed psychotic. He was on multiple medications, and he had a history of sexually inappropriate behavior. We were told a little bit about his childhood, in order to give us some context, and I suspect, so we could feel a tiny bit of sympathy towards him.
He was a senior. He started acting out (including masterbating in front of other students during class) in sixth grade. Six years. He’d spent one year in the alternative high school, and because he’d managed to behave and stay on his meds, he was allowed back in the regular high school. My hair stood on end every time I was around this kid, and the other students in the class, especially the girls, knew there was something wrong with him, even though he was a glib charmer. But so long as he behaved, he was allowed in the class and in the school. We couldn’t even give the other students specific warnings. I was limited to “if you have a bad feeling about him, stay away from him. If he scares you for any reason at all, let me know immediately.”
I had discussions with other teachers about how fucking scary that kid was. Trouble was - and the principal agreed with us - short of him behaving in a threatening manner or becoming out and out violent, there was nothing we could do. You can’t expell a kid because he gives you the heebie-jeebies, even if he has a history of mental illness and violent behavior. You can’t lock him up on a hunch, even if he has a diagnosis and is medicated.
It could be that every single adult in Rodger’s life knew he was a ticking timebomb, but the only one who could have forced him into in-patient treatment when he was a kid was his father (who could easily have been in denial or was so overwhelmed he just couldn’t pull it off), and once Rodger’s was 18, it would have taken a court hearing to declare Rodgers not of sound mind, and those are practically impossible to do if the person in question has not already committed a violent act. Even then, it can only be done until the patient is no longer a present danger to others.
This is just sad. When is it going to stop? Is this going to be a monthly or weekly event now in America?
It just seems so impossible to prevent.
Perhaps the cops should compare the songs listed in this thread against the ones on his iPod playlist.
Going over the timeline of events, it doesn’t seem like his family did jack-all to prevent his actions or address his issues, until it was too late to do anything at all. The only “intervention” came on Friday night, when his therapist notified his parents about the “manifesto” he had emailed to everyone, but of course by then, the killings had already begun.
That’s how these situations typically play out, aside from the lone shooters who don’t even have any family to ignore them.
Check out CNN’s front page right now. Those stupid mother fuckers have the attack happening in Santa Monica at the moment. I thought for a second that there really was another one. They were only off by 110 miles.
The catch with mental illness is that while there are interventions and therapies that do a lot of good, courts are typically extremely reluctant to compel people to be treated, unless they’re clearly and obviously a danger to themselves or others. If you’re not a danger, they recognize your rights, which includes the right to refuse treatment and go be an unwashed, stinky loon under a bridge somewhere.
With most people who snap and go on a killing spree, there’s a pattern of odd and/or ominous behavior, but almost never enough to actually restrain someone or compel them to be treated or evaluated. Behaviors like looking at weird websites or odd non-specific writings or videos will mark them as real weirdos, but aren’t enough to get them watched or committed, unless there are specific threats.
I personally think they need to tighten up the mental illness legislation and remove some of the rights to self-determination. I mean, if you’re some kinds of mentally ill, you’re clearly not in your right mind, so to speak, and aren’t probably capable of making decisions about your own treatment. They also need to revise the laws about behaviors by known mentally ill people- if you are a known nut, and you are fixated on reading up on how to murder people, then that should be enough to commit you for a moderate amount of time.
The other issue in that inpatient is VERY EXPENSIVE and prone to abuse. We don’t like to pay for it.
“smartest, hippest people on the planet”
“world’s smartest human”
False:
- They sent him to therapists starting when he was a young kid.
- A month ago they complained to the police–who ended up sending SIX or so police to go and do a mental health check.
You seem to be suggesting that at some point there should have been clear signs that they had in their hands a “monster” and actions should have been taken to neutralize the “monster”. Actions involving involuntary committal and compulsory treatment.
Small problem is, very very often you can’t tell “monster” from merely “troubled” until the individual actually does something monstrous.
And I believe someone mentioned, as a society we did away with sending our troublesome individuals to be locked away in the looney bin without actual evidence of grave and present danger.
I completely agree.
I would love to have my brother committed to a mental hospital as I would not be surprised at all if he were to do something bad. He’s had a checkered past, but he’s never crossed the line into actually doing something which could get him locked up.
He doesn’t seem as screwed up as this kid, but there are some “signs” that if he were to do something, everyone would point figures at us and say why didn’t we do anything. He’s stalked someone before, but stopped when the police told him to knock it off. He did something inappropriate in high school with a younger girl, but I’ve never been given the details.
We tried, but he refuses help. Short of him committing a crime, there really isn’t a way of getting him locked up.
He could also never do anything, either. No one knows. I have a cousin who really gave off the creeps. He was psychotic and deeply disturbed. He died quietly in bed last year.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I wish I did.
I’m sorry if this offends but to me, this is Los Angeles. LA is… well it’s LA. Most people are pretty decent and pretty normal but its also a city with many weirdos, freaks, and other odd persons because - it’s LA. For example you have this place in Hollywood where people dress like famous stars to get their picture taken (for money). You have Venice Beach with lots of street performers. There is the “Museum of Death”. You have this big underground nightclub scene. Plus many times these odd people get bit roles in tv and movies. The San Fernando Valley is the hub of the porn industry. So long and short, it’s the city where a big proportion of people make their living off the entertainment industries and being “different” and standing out is more acceptable.
Now if this had been some small town, he would have stuck out like a sore thumb and might have been taken seriously. In my white bread suburb of Kansas City even getting a nose ring makes you a stand out.
But in LA, nah.
And then, this boys father worked in the movie industry. He is used to all kinds of odd behavior and may have become immune to it.
That’s probably the one I was thinking of.
It’s virtually impossible these days in the USA to have someone “committed”, so they keep buying guns and killing people. Very sad.
If you read his crazed “manifesto”, you will see that this isn’t “ironic” in the slightest: his anger was, in point of fact, directed as much at men as at women, and he actively wanted to kill both.
From his “manifesto”:
It is not the case that he hated women and considered men as “his own”. He considered himself a god and hated all of humanity, essentially for not recognizing his godhood, or by surpassing him. This insult required retribution, which he planned from the start to extract from men and women alike - all “depraved” humanity.
How about a cite for both assertions there?
Yeah, but it didn’t become that way just this past week. This guy didn’t invent mental illness, spree killing, and so on. A percentage of the population is like this, will always be like this and changing the shape of the country to prevent a few bad actors makes as much sense as outlawing McDonalds because a few people have heart attacks.
Similarly, there’s no reason to think there will be more violent horny losers this week than there were a month ago, simply because one acted up. The rest will go into IT like always. 
The “quest for answers” has gotten silly. Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow were responding to an editorial blaming their movies for creating unrealistic expectations for young men: that college is a 4-year frat party and even a chubby slob with poor social skills will score supermodels. Fair enough, except that applies to all movies, doesn’t it? RomComs, action films, drama - the reaction to some teen girl shooting the president of the university with a bow and arrow because the small portions in the student center remind her of the Hunger Games isn’t to question Suzanne Collins putting pen to paper, but to realize that girl had a break with reality, same as this nutjob.
You are speaking untruths. Apart from your mischaracterisation of the MRM, there is absolutely nothing whatsoever linking the gun-toting maniac to the MRM. He’ s known to have posted on bodybuilding forums, where they made fun of him, and anti-PUA forums, where they also seem have alternated between ignoring and ridiculing him and worrying that he might be a dangerous maniac.
The MRM is completely absent from his life. They didn’t cause his actions, they didn’t provide validation, they didn’t provide him with a forum.
They don’t exist.
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You are talking about the present situation. But what about the future? How can we change the situation in order to protect the public and at the same time protect the rights of individuals?
It’s currently impossible to force out-patients to take their medications. A prison boards shrink may determine that a patient/prisoner is no longer a threat to society PROVIDED THEY TAKE THEIR MEDS. How does society insure that the patient/prisoner takes their meds? The law(s) could be changed to make it possible to keep a dangerous person under court supervision or parole??? Take your meds or go back to confinement. Their choice. just a thought.