Dragonforce? Dragonforce is pretty much perfect for 13-year-olds, IMHO. Overproduced, repetitive, cheesy lyrics. They’ve got a few cool songs, but it’s hard to retain interest in them for long. If he’s into power metal, steer him in the direction of Rhapsody of Fire. Now there’s a group that knows how to do cheesy lyrics as only an Italian metal band singing in English can. He’d probably also like Nightwish.
There’s actually a lot of metal out there that’s more or less wholesome, as far as it goes. Especially in power metal and epic metal where fantasy themes are quite popular; you’re more likely to find dragons and swords than drugs and misogyny. (Now, are dragons and swords just symbols for drugs and misogyny? That’s a question I’ll leave for the philosophers. :D)
Dragonforce is practically a gateway band for fantasy RPGs. =P
Seriously, just to add my anecdote to the thread, when I was that age it was my mom being concerned that I abruptly transitioned from “listens to country music and 50s-60s rock with her” to the first albums I bought myself being Green Day’s “Dookie” and Aerosmith’s “Get a Grip”–the former of which has cartoony album art of dogs throwing poop at a busytown-style city, and the latter of which has disc art that’s just black-and-white nipples. I’m fine, and truth be told I didn’t get depressed and agnostic until my college years when you’re supposed to do so anyway.
When he’s old enough that the “Explicit Lyrics” tags don’t bother you so much (with proper vetting, and it’s mostly language/fantasy violence and not sex/drug references) and if he still likes this style of music, you might be able to earn cool dad points by suggesting Manowar (Triumph of Steel being my favorite, for the 28-minute Illiad-based rock epic that’s the highlight of the disc).
Heh, Appetite for Destruction was the first Music CD I got that had the word “Fuck” in it and it was also the first one where I got to see a woman’s naked breast (from the inside liner notes of the album cover, just a single breast in this crazy picture. I still remember it, but that CD blew my mind.
Course from there Nu-Metal hit and I was listening to Limp Bizkit, KoRn, Eminem, Kid Rock and all the other Bands out there at the time while checking out then Gangster Rap music from the early 90s that I had seen but never paid attention to and then just started rocking out w/ my rebellious teen years. My parents never really listened to my music, they’d only stop me from buying Eminem albums when they saw the parental advisory stickers on them, so I had to use Napster or my freinds in those days to just make the CD onto burned CDs and listen to it that way.
Even if you try to censor his musical tastes, he’s going to find a way around it. I tried to censor my sister’s taste, turns out her carpool buddy though loves Jay-Z and so on the ride to school she gets to hear “Girls, Girls, Girls” “N*ggaz and Bitches” and all sorta stuff, not to mention all the albums her friends all pass around amongst themselves.
It’s going to happen either way, the only thing you can really do is just try to take part in it and stay involved- Music isn’t the driving force to turning someone into a cliche. There’s got to be other factors- otherwise you yourself should be an LSD-taking stoner pothead from the Pink Floyd association. It’s just if you’re looking for an outlet, music is a safe gateway to do so.
I’m now slowly going through med school and I love my musical tastes, when I want to relax and relax I put in my Grateful dead albums and just listen to the melody, when I want to study, I listen to “The Wall” and when I’m just feeling angry or upset, I can still listen to my angsty Nu-Metal and use it to de-stress and not worry as much.
Music cannot corrupt on its own, but how one perceives and uses it certainly can effect people. If your goal is simply to prevent him from being exposed to certain content, you’ll also have to be careful then of his movie habits and his books. Stephen King’s Cujo and “Carrie” did FAR more for me in the 3rd grade than Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg rapping about bitches and hoes in the 8th grade or Limp Bizkit using lyrics such as “if I say f*** two more times, that’s 42 fs in this fed up rhyme”. Also the internet as a whole is another way he’s going to have access to this sort of content- I remember getting pop up ads for playboy and being so scared my parents would find out that I’d delete my history and empty my cookies just because of an ad. And my parents would be clueless.
It’s a very tough job of trying to censor the world for your kids, the best thing you can do is be supporting and like everyone else has said- listen it to yourself if you want, and try to be a part of his life. The best things to do is simply to learn how to use and deal with music. Music can certainly fulfill an outlet in one’s life, and it’s a great tool for life. But the best things come also with simply understanding more about music and understanding what you can get out of it. Why does he like certain songs, what are other things he might like, share with him some of your pink floyd and explain to him WHY it was cool for you can be a great experience. Sure, some of it might contain dodgy content, but if he’s got the right mindset and a good head on his shoulders, he should be able to see it for what it is and what it isn’t and he’ll be just fine.
It’s really all you can hope for- so focus just on teaching him to have a good head on his shoulders and letting him figure out the music for himself vs. trying to sheild him and protect him without giving him his own chance to think for himself and make his own decisions.
I’m a big metalhead myself, and I think it’s unfortunate that metal get’s a bad name because of some well known act when many are pretty much harmless. As mentioned upthread by others, the bands in the OP aren’t really bad, except for maybe Slayer and some cursing. Of course, some sub-genres of metal are more likely to just be pretty safe, like Power Metal or Progressive Metal, and some sub-genres are more likely to be something you might not like him listening too, like Black Metal or Death Metal, but there’s still pockets of relatively tame lyrics even in there.
My advice is to avoid banning anything unless it’s really bad (I could completely understand banning the few white surpremacy metal bands I’ve heard about) because he’ll mostly resent you for it. Instead, try to become at least slightly aware of the music so you know what’s going on with him. Lyrics are incredibly easy to find on the internet, and you can find out what his favorite songs are and read the lyrics so you know what he’s listening to and you can even engage him in his thoughts about what the song means to him.
Even with that I wouldn’t take the lyrics too seriously unless he does. For instance, some of the bands I like may have some pretty gruesome lyrics, but I mostly treat the lyrics as gibberish because I enjoy the music and wouldn’t really get attached to it or, in many cases, even bother to learn what the lyrics are. In a lot of metal, lyrics are more or less incidental to the music and it would be virtually just as good if the vocalist were singing “lalala” instead. In many other cases, the lyrics are meaningful and I get attached to it, but these also tend to be the types of songs and bands that cover topics relevant to me.
So, I guess, to summarize, there’s nothing wrong with metal as a whole, and you sure as heck can’t expect to like everything your kid does. Read up on individual bands and songs that he likes and talk with him about them THEN make up your mind. You may find that, in fact, some metal bands are probably a heck of a lot cleaner lyrically than a lot other popular music, while others may be considerably worse.
I was a metalhead at that age too (and as a preppy girl it made for interesting conversations with the metal kids at school wearing the band shirts…) and still enjoy some of it. I’m also dating a big metalhead. Whoooo is also preppy and has a comp sci degree and a great job and is a nice person, and his metalhead friends are the same. It’s just music. He may grow out of it, he may not. Either way it’s no worse than top 40 pop or rap or anything else most kids like. Liking metal doesn’t make you a loser or a stoner.
And it’s not like he is buying Cannibal Corpse CDs. I actually kind of like them but their lyrics are REALLY out there and the album artwork is gross.
Dragonforce and Disturbed are harmless. Slayer has some bad language and uses some faux satanic imagery (which may or may not bother you). Ozzy, of course, was one of the most feared artists of the 80’s, but that was completely unfounded moral panic. He’s got some great songs and I wouldn’t stop my 13-year-old from listening to him. I like Sabbath better than his solo stuff, though.
ETA: Whoops, beat to the punch with the Cannibal Corpse stuff. Seriously, keep your kid away from them.
I never listened to heavy metal. I was a straight A student, a cheerleader, in the National Honor Society, on the dance team, and a few other activities and I got high on occasion. I wasn’t a “stoner” but my friends and I smoked pot once in a while and drank once in a while.
If that is what you’re worried about, the music won’t matter.
I am 36 years old and became one of the preppiest metal heads out there when I was just a little older than he is. It is on Guitar Hero after all for god’s sake. It is one of the most popular games available produced by a big corporation for mass interest. The stuff you describe is pretty quaint although I seem to be locked into that era myself. There is some offensive (more like sucky, offensive, overly aggressive and incomprehensible) metal out there back it isn’t that.
Some metal like Guns N Roses plus a few others like Metallica is classic rock because it is so good. I would let him listen to it but there is one thing you can do as a parent. You can tell him that most of it is is just shock showmanship. Those bands are just putting on a special kind of show for effect and it isn’t real and they know it. Ozzy Osbourne made a huge name for himself doing shock stunts and many were just rumors. He isn’t an evil or angry person at all. The same is true of Marilyn Manson. He is a regular guy from Ohio that puts on a show. If you tell him that, it may be like saying there is no Santa Clause in a way but it is true. The pop artists seem to be the ones getting themselves into the most trouble these days.
I didn’t return the CDs. Based on all of the input I got here, I told him he could keep them. I also told him that this wasn’t a blank check; I still want to know what he’s listening to.
That will not be a problem. I’ve never heard of them before this thread. After a couple of minutes of googling, I’m seriously astonished this stuff is produced and sold by mainstream corporations. It’s basically slasher porn–completely disgusting stuff.
For the very few people questioning why I was looking into this before giving my son the go-ahead, and whose only response is to just “leave him alone and let him listen to what he wants” (as in Post #2), this Cannibal Corpse stuff is a perfect example of why parents should be monitoring what their kids are listening to.
Yeah, I really didn’t have much of a problem with Ozzy Osbourne. I actually didn’t realize he did Crazy Train, which I’d call a classic rock song.
I listened to a LOT of Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, etc back in my teens. I have a steady job and turned out okay.
What I’d be way more concerned about is Rap/HipHop. My older son is into it and I get subjected to it whenever I’m at his home. Nothing I can do at this point - he’s twenty-three and a dad himself. The lyrics are just foul and the misogany is…well, I think it’s beyond unacceptable and I’m pretty unshockably for most things.
Of course, I may not really be that good of an example - I’m almost fifty and act in an Alice Cooper tribute!
Ozzy Osbourne? Damn, I don’t have kids yet, but I’d be full of pride that I had done a good job as a parent if my kid, of his own accord, brought home an Ozzy Osbourne CD.
You’re doing fine. Let the kid listen to the music.
I’m a conservative, midwestern, presbeterian, republican, white guy, and I have no problem letting my 13 year old listen to whatever he wants. He is an A student, and a very skilled athlete, polite kid. I really don’t understand why hearing music with lyrics I don’t necessarily agree with would change that. He even says that it is the music he likes… the words don’t really matter to him. I’m the same way in that I recognize many past hits but couldn’t identify most of the lyrics if my life depended on it.
Sometimes he changes the radio station to something I can’t stand, and if I listen I question if he should hear it, but it really is only words… there is that odd concept of free speach and all that. Teaching them to decide which ones make sense and which don’t are an important skill in my book. He is going to hear these things no matter how hard I try to protect him. I read a lot of things on this board I don’t agree with but I don’t think they shouldn’t be said. Part of being a parent is teaching them values and helping them figure out what fits and what doesn’t.
I guess I should qualify… if he started listening to hate speach I’d step in, but having Lady Ga Ga say something a little sexually charged doesn’t concern me. And he knows Ozzy from the reality show and sees him as someone with problems so I’m not so sure he would be too eager to idolize “the dark prince” anytime soon… but he can still appreciate some of the music he made.
(For reference, programmer with and M.Sc in CompSci, avid scuba diver, amateur kickboxer and all around great guy, grew up on Metallica, Tool, Rammstein and Dream Theatre).
Let the kid listen to what he wants. Music is like any other medium, it explores social themes. Reading Crime and Punishment won’t make him commit murder. Watching The Wire won’t turn him into a crack dealer in Baltimore. He’s a 13 and hitting puberty, he’s going to have a lot going on in his mind and the darker themes of heavy metal are a way to express that.
Also, remember that music is something culturally subjective. When we in the west hear far eastern music it just sounds like a weird cacophony. When listening to oriental music we’re generally bothered by the eights (if I remember correctly), which sound false in our ears. Remember that he’s hearing melodies and beauty in the music that you’re not getting.
That’s a good point. A lot of the time the songs with clear discernible vocals are the ones with the most inoffensive or cheesy lyrics, and with the growly angrier stuff you can’t make out half the lyrics a lot of the time anyway, it’s just like the vocals are another instrument.
Yeah some things about metal (lyrics, imagery, performances etc) may sound bad on paper, but a lot of it is very heavily tongue-in-cheek and done with a bit of a wink.
Why bother not letting him listen to ‘explicit content’ stuff? (I mean music with swearing, not vulgar themes like cannibal corpse, ftr). At 13 years old he’ll have heard all the cussing he could ever imagine through being at school. IIRC, I discovered the term ‘motherfucker’ at around 11 years old from a friends older brother.
And this was all from a nice middle class background. We didn’t really have any ‘rough’ friends - if that would make a difference to anybody.
Just be thankful that he isn’t into rap or r’n’b, it’s much better having to listen to someones secondhand music when it actually sounds good!
As for the popular thing, he’s probably been able to extend his social circle by having something in common with more people now. Don’t sweat it.
Whilst my mum never explicitly banned me from listening to any music, it was the subject of many arguments. I’ve been a metal fan since about 10 years old when I discovered an old Motorhead tape of my dads. I’m now in my final year of a Psychology BSc, currently averaging a 1:1 too.
Be fair with your son, let him listen to what he wants. If you have an objection to the material it might be best to discuss it with him, let him voice his opinion but also teach him to discuss and debate the issue without arguing. It might be a valuable learning experience for both of you. You could explain why you think the material is vulgar and what he thinks, or the swearing and what he thinks is appropriate about its usage and when it’s ok or not to use it.
If my mum and step dad had been willing to do that, even if it meant in the end the same out-come (not being able to listen to it), I can’t imagine how many arguments it would have saved, and perhaps I’d have had a better relationship with my mum from an earlier age, instead of resenting her a fair bit through my early teens.
