Muffin has some really good points. I just don’t see any value in developing a relationship between your daughter and your father. It just seems like too much of a risk and one that will cause you a lot of stress. For what? To make other people happy?
I take a real hard line on who is in my family’s life even now and my son is 26. Any person who is toxic gets no where near any of us. I’m just not willing to risk my family’s well being to work through someone else’s problems. I’m fiercely protective and unapologetic.
I am Asian. Like Tokyo Bayer, I grew up in an abusive household, though his was much worse. And I say: Fuck that noise. Of course your mother knows all the buttons to press, after all, she installed them.
You were abused. You have one predominant responsibility in your life now: to keep your child safe. You have no reason to bring your daughter to your father.
You need to establish some boundaries with your mom, like now. You don’t have to be explosive about it, in fact, that will just hurt you. Practice things like:
Mom, I don’t want to talk about this (your father).
Mom, if we continue to talk about this, I’ll have to hang up.
Mom, I’m hanging up now. I’ll call you back later on.
Mom, you need to respect my choices.
I’m sorry you feel that way.
Mom, I love you but I can’t agree with you.
It’s not the end of the world to not have your daughter meet her deadbeat grandpa. Not if she has plenty of love from other places. I never met mine (they both died before I was born).
Good luck. Stay strong. Do what is good for your health and the health of your immediate family.
I like this approach. I can’t tell you the number of escalating arguments I have had with my mother over various issues. I have found that it is pointless to try to debate her on facts, and even more pointless to try to get her to change her way of thinking.It is much better just to agree to disagree and to get off the horn before things spiral downward.
Penchan, please have another look at what you wrote here. From the outside, this looks like your mother has just found a more efficient way to get you to play her game.
I’m not saying she’s a bad person or has anything but your best interests at heart. I’m saying that you know what’s best for you, and from what you say she is not listening.
On the other note, a two-year-old won’t have memories of her grandfather. A three-year-old probably won’t. Even a four-year-old’s memories aren’t going to be hugely meaningful if it’s only the occasional visit. So I see no benefit to your daughter in having them meet, especially since establishing a close relationship is off the cards.
That said, I was kept from toxic family as a child. I yearned for them. I still do, in a way. I knew there was this bunch of people that I belonged to, and I was a lonely child. I needed family. Then, just a few years ago (I’m in my 40s), my grandfather died and I had dealings with aunts and uncles and cousins. A few good people, but I have thanked my mother for keeping me away and apologized to her for doubting that choice. Holy guacamole, these are bad, bad people; I did not see it in my minimal exposure as a child, but even one generation removed I am still feeling the effects.
Again, for what it’s worth, my advice:
Love your mother.
Forgive your mother.
DO NOT TRUST your mother, at least when it comes to family dynamics. And, for what it’s worth, I’m sorry for the whole situation.
Your daughter is happy never having met your father. She will continue to be happy never having met your father. On the other hand, I see no way for lasting harm to come to her from brief, supervised visits with him; although small children can be frightened by the apparatus of sickness, like tubes and machines that go beep, so take that into account.
The rest of it is all about you and what decision you make. None of us can do that for you.
Should I let my dad meet my daughter? (short answer)
Only if you think that your daughter would benefit from the meeting. Only then.
Do not let her meet if you think she would be harmed in any way from the meeting. Don’t let others tell you what to do. You’re her mother, and your job is to look out for her.
It seems to me you have already told your mother what the deal must be in order for your father to see your daughter.
If she brings the topic up, you can just calmly point out that he has not fulfilled even the most basic requirement you laid out - contacting you directly - to see your daughter. Then you can change the subject. Politely if possible, firmly if not. Anaamika is totally correct about speaking to your mom about this.
In short, you have already bent to the extent of being willing to consider it if he contacts you to discuss the matter. There is no need for you to bend further. You have done your part of the compromising - there is no need for you to do his part of it in addition to your own.
You are doing no damage to your daughter by not actively facilitating a meeting, she’s happy now and will continue to be happy. All you’re doing his setting boundaries you feel are appropriate for both your own mental health and your daughter’s. If your father is not willing to abide by even simple requests (and, frankly, “I need him to speak directly with me before he gets to meet my daughter” is as simple as requests get), then it’s his loss - and entirely on him. Sad for him, but in no way your fault.
You’re an adult, so ultimately you get to choose who you associate with.
I’d be inclined to arrange a meeting between grandparent and child, because never meeting a grandparent is one of those things that is potentially regretful. My dad’s parents passed away before I was born, and I would have liked to have met them once, even if they were jerks. You’re responsible for protecting your child, but your child has interests too, and you should be aware of the possibility that your daughter might one day resent your “protection” of her.
All that said, you’re the mother of the grandchild, so you’ve got the upper hand here. It’s totally fair for you to expect your dad to take whatever steps you decide are necessary to reconcile with you, if he truly wants to see his grandchild. Put the ball in his court. If he won’t swallow his pride and be called to account for his behavior, then it becomes his choice, not yours.
There is a difference between being a parent & being a grandparent; one you are responsible for the child & live with them, not getting a break while the latter tends to be more fun & then you ‘give the child back’. Its easier to enjoy something/someone if you have no responsibility. It appears your father has respected your wishes & not contacted you in years while still asking about your family.
I’d say meet where you control the environment, which means anywhere BUT your house so you can easily get up & leave if it’s too much. Children are resilient, she might pick up some tension that day if it’s bad but will forget about it soon afterwards. Your daughter is 2 1/2, she won’t remember if this one meeting goes bad, but will get to know him if it goes well.
Speaking as the granddaughter in this scenario, I never missed what I didn’t have.
My dad’s parents were divorced in the 1940s, when divorce was still beyond the pale for most ordinary folks. Family story is that the final decree was on the same day my parents got their wedding license. My dad essentially cut his father off from that point forward. I don’t know any details. My dad was very reticent about discussing anything as messy as emotions.
So, I never met him (have only seen one photograph of him) and never missed him.
I’ve started doing genealogy research in the last year or so, because I knew so little about that side of the family, but my grandfather is still just a branch on my tree. There’s no emotional resonance there at all.
My advice? If you dad doesn’t contact you directly, don’t take your daughter to meet him.
Penchan, For me your bottom line: “Bottom line, I don’t want my daughter to experience any of the abuse that I endured.” is a good line to stand by.
Your husband should be able to see this. When explained to him, he should have made the decision to not allow your father any contact with his daughter. IIRCC, This would fit into your Asian culture well. Your father will probably back off once he hears that your husband is the one doing the banning. Your mother & brother will also respect your husband’s wishes more than they respect yours. IOW, Your husband should protect you & your daughter from this danger. Do I understand the culture correctly?
If, in some crazy moment, you do choose to let your father see your daughter, your husband, & you must be there at all times. Your husband would have to be willing & able to pull both your daughter & you out of the meeting at any sign of abuse. You two should have a hand signal for this. Do not let your mother take the girl to see your father. Remember, your mother let your father abuse you. Why would you expect her to protect your daughter from him? What is different now?
Since you have read the other thread, you know that my kids, & now my grandchildren, have never met my dad. I did this because of his actions. No one should have to be abused. Especially not little kids. I have practiced what I am telling you to do now. I know how hard it can be.
Yeah. I’ve found they are WAY better at arguing than me. Besides, it’s the old adage about arguing with a pig.
It’s hard to set boundaries but you find over time you just stop caring what they think. I read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and it was a wonderful, wonderful help. While she does cover sexually and physically abusive parents, she has a huge section on emotionally abusive parents.
Problem is, lots of people don’t believe parents can emotionally abuse you. These are usually people who have great parents. They say things like, “Oh, she’s your mom, she loves you,” or “Oh, it’s your dad, he just wants the best for you.” They believe if you are not getting beaten or touched, everything else is fine.
They will never get it, so right off the bat you cannot listen to these people. Worst are Asian parents. “It’s your duty to respect and honor and listen to your parents.” Hell no. Respect is earned not given, even to your parents, and I will forever be cynical of people who say this!
It takes so long to crawl out from under these people’s yokes that often you do end up with kids of your own before you really realize the hell they put you through. But now your responsibility is to yourself and to your child.
I see no reason to believe that the father is interested at all. My assumption, on reading this history, is that the mother is fabricating the news of his supposed interest.
My husband and I have been talking about this issue and I think I’ve made peace with my decision.
Some of you have pointed out that I have set my boundaries with my mom and I need to stick by them. I’m reminded that while this is a hard decision to make, I need to do it for my daughter. I need to be firm and I need to protect my daughter, especially when my dad has made no effort to get to know his granddaughter.
It is difficult going against what my culture has taught me, that I must obey my parents and present this Face of perfection to the world. Well, life isn’t perfect and I can’t sacrifice my family’s well being to keep up the facade.
I offered the possibility of a reconciliation by telling my mom that my dad needs to call me first to start the process. He has done nothing. It is not me depriving my daughter of her grandfather, my dad is doing that. I can only do so much.
I will continue to respect my dad’s continuance of our estrangement and keep moving forward with my life.
I am done feeling guilty. I am done hurting and beating myself up for not being a better daughter and mom. I need to live in the now and enjoy all the positive people in it.
I told my husband yesterday “I’m done. I can’t keep this up anymore. Our daughter has everyone she needs in her life. I feel free.” I almost started crying because I felt this weight lifted off of my shoulders.
I’m so glad you found a solution that gives you peace. Now look forward, raise your daughter to be a strong independent compassionate woman, and never look back.
My father died earlier this year according to a death notice I found via google months later. I presume i am not in the will as I am still waiting to be informed. That’s all as perfectly fine with me as I thought it would be when we parted. I always had this lingering fear he would appear in my life again in search of forgiveness or a kidney, I didn’t know that until it lifted as I read the notice.
Many more people are capable of breeding than are fit to parent. It’s ok to just be their offspring, you don’t need to be their child in the societal sense.