Should I reconcile with my brother?

OK, it’s a long and complicated story, but I would value some advice so will try to keep it short and interesting :slight_smile:

Basically at the core of the story is an ongoing hot and cold war I have been having with my mother over the past decade for her non-acceptance of my wife (I have described this in other threads in case anyone is interested, but won’t go into details now). All was initially fine with my brother (lets call him George) and he was sympathetic to my issues with my mother. However, while I maintained a strict policy of not burdening my brothers with the details of my fight with my mother, and of not ever saying anything bad about her, my mother dumped lots on my brothers, including her hate for my wife, her disappointment in me, and most of all, her misery and dissatisfaction with her life and her depression. So they were seeing only one side of the story, over a period of quite a few years. At some point a few years ago, George offered to mediate between my mother and myself, which I happily welcomed. Anyway, his mediation didn’t really achieve much (though my mother and I are currently in a period of peace that we agreed bilaterally), but it did expose George to even more of the indoctrination from my mother. George began to blame me more and more for the situation, and began to resent my part in my mother’s misery.

Finally, about one year ago, the task of hearing all this from my mother and being her sole source of emotional support became too much for George, and he broke off contact with me, saying that he would only resume contact if I fixed my ways once and for all and ‘stopped tearing apart the family’. I was really stunned by this because I thought all along that George was, if not an ally (I wouldn’t want anyone to be ‘allies’ because that would only increase the divide in the family), then a neutral and objective party. It was a real betrayal. But moreover, what was most sickening was what he said to me in the last couple of conversations and emails between us. He made attacks on my character, on my value for family, on my life choices, on my choice of friends. He explicitly accused me of tearing apart the family. He also maligned my wife (who has never been anything but nice to him), calling her psychotic and accusing her of masterminding the whole situation. And to cap it all off, he said that “it would have been easier for all of us if you had died in a plane crash”. This last bit was really shocking, and way out of line. I know that speaking of a hypothetical is not the same as saying ‘I want you to die’, but still, it is hard to swallow from your own bother. And I couldn’t even let that particular comment pass as a heat of the moment thing, as I later learned that he repeated the same exact statement about me to my other brother two months later.

So that’s the background. As described, George broke off all communications with me 12 months ago. However, two months ago, George sent me an email, announcing that he was getting married, and that he thought it would be good to restart communications. There was no mention of what had passed between us, no apology, and also no congratulations on the recent birth of my daughter. My initial reaction was that the offer seemed self-serving. His fiancee is from a very well-off family, and I suspect he is afraid it will look bad if his big brother does not attend the wedding. I did not respond, and he wrote a second email, reiterating his desire to see reconciliation in the family and to have me at the wedding. Still no mention of the past abuses.

I need to respond to him, and want to tell him about how far out of line he was last year and how much pain he caused. It is possible (though not certain) that I may thus be able to extract a satisfactory apology from him. But before I write to him, two questions are stuck in my mind.

First, given his failure to proactively acknowledge or apologise for his venomous attacks and betrayal in either of the two recent messages (as well as his failure to congratulate me on my daughter), how sincere would any apology from him be?

And second, even if the apology is sincere, will I/should I be able to forgive and forget the things he said? It was some pretty nasty stuff, not just aimed at me, but also at my wife. How strong will I need to be to get past this? Will it be a cancer between us for the rest of our days, or will we be able to find a way to move past it? George has always been a decent and level-headed guy, and we never had issues before this (though I wouldn’t describe us as close). My mother, on the other hand, has always been very needy and neurotic, depending way too much on her three boys for emotional support after she and my dad divorced. Given my policy of non-aggression, I can see how George might have gotten a one-sided picture over the years. But now that he has made it clear how he feels about me, can it ever be undone?

So what do Dopers think? I would love to hear your experiences and wisdom. My mind would like reconciliation, but my heart still feels sick.

[P.S. I don’t want to debate whether I am right or wrong in my relationship with my mother. Personally I think I am right to defend my wife against poor treatment in the family, but I also know that no one is ever blame-free in a family feud. Since my mother and I are at peace at the moment, I am trying to do my best to keep lines of communication open and be less quick to issue ultimata of my own.]

I think apologies are overrated. First, because I believe we are responsible for our own feelings. Secondly, because apologies are an abstract substitute for a bunch of other things that are better dealt with individually and explicitly, and only some of which may even apply to a given situation:

  1. you were hurt
  2. something I did hurt you vs you took unwarranted offense
  3. what I did was wrong in principle or was it inadvertently hurtful?
  4. I did a bad thing vs a careless thing vs I broke a social contract vs I was a bad person
  5. you are right and I am wrong
  6. I don’t want you to be hurt
  7. given the same situation, I would make a different choice
  8. we agree as to what that alternate choice would be

You need to figure out which of these things you actually want your brother to say. He could apologize and mean something completely different than what you want. Personally, I find that the only positive and productive parts of an apology are 7 & 8. There is no point in dwelling in the past and drudging up old shit or holding a grudge. There is a point to discussing what kind of behavior is acceptable to you in the future.

The other option here is, if you are getting along with your mother, to have her mediate.

Apologies are totally not overrrarted and I would want and expect one for the “dying in a plane crash” assholishness. That being said, be prepared not to get one.

No point in holding a grudge but that doesn’t mean you have to let the poison back into your life. I always advocate “forgive but do not forget”. Remember how badly this person hurt you and be wary, and be ready to do what you need to do for your own mental health.

You are definitely right to defend your wife. And in the end, it’s not a sin to cut yourself off from toxic people.

Let the whole thing go.

Ignore the past.

Build a future with your brother.

In the best world, having built a new relationship, there may or may not come a time to review the past.

For now, let it go.

Just my WAG but I doubt if your brother is interested in giving you an apology.

Where is your apology for previously dragging your brother into your big mess?

He had to babysit you and your mother’s feud and somehow it built up pressure in him until he finally exploded. That explosion expelled a lot of over the top statements born out of the frustration of having to deal with your problem.

My guess is that mom wants the family together and he’s extending an olive branch to you. This is probably as a favor to mom, not you. You in return seem to be demanding some groveling on his part for this stuff to happen.

Don’t think that will happen.

Why? Well in his view he’s already taken a lot of crap while babysitting your issues. It stressed him. He cracked. He’s probably much more at peace with you out of his life than in it. Having you in his life would be nice but having you and your issues isn’t worth the effort.

My suggestion is that you should expect no apologies unless you plan to give some heartfelt apologies first.

You are not too far off the mark BubbaDog. I too have a feeling my brother is not really that keen to have me back in his life, as he actually holds most of the family in disdain. Frankly, I doubt he would really want any of us at his wedding if there weren’t questions of appearances. Perhaps he is reaching out for my mother’s sake, or perhaps for selfish reasons, but the fact that is is timed as it is (and without any warm congrats on my baby) does make be questions his sincerity.

I don’t have any illusions on my own desirability. I do bring a lot of family baggage, and have made some mistakes. And who knows how long the truce with me mother will hold. But I must clarify that at no point did I ever do anything to hurt my brother, nor did I ever ask for him to get involved in the feud. Quite the opposite, I many times told him to keep out of it, to stay far away from the mess. I didn’t want to subject anyone else to the insanity. It was because George had so little skin in the game that I saw his offer to be a mediator to be an opportunity. In hindsight it wasn’t a great idea, but he suggested it, not me.

As for apologies, I had already apologised to him many times for the crazy family mess and told him to steer far clear of it. He made the fight his own anyway.

I like your taxonomic classification of apologies jackdavinci, very thorough. :slight_smile: I will have to think that through.

As for the last point, I had to LOL because it was my mother who started the whole thing, and George’s attempt to mediate that which pushed him over. But there would be a certain elegance to that solution I admit. :smiley:

But seriously, I am treading VERY carefully with my mother on this one. Obviously she thinks that George was just standing up for her when he cut me off, and believed that the decision was George’s to make on whether and when we restart communications. She needs to know why I may not go to the wedding, but the little bit of wisdom I have gained over time tells me not to involve her any more than necessary.

This +1.

You said yourself that an apology may not do any good. So why try to get one? Yes, the plane crash remark was an asshole thing to say. But you don’t lose anything by being the better man.

Regards,
Shodan

I am probably going to be in the minority here, but I say, “Fuck 'em” and move on.

I have an older and younger brother, and tons of relatives.
I get along with my older brother great - we call often, text and email, and he comes to visit at least once a year. I also have some fairly close cousins.

However, my younger brother and I haven’t spoken a word in probably 5 years or more.

I don’t care.

He was always the problem child, he is needy and wants all the attention, and he and I have absolutely nothing in common, other than genetics. He has burned lots of bridges with the rest of the relatives (they have little or no contact, even though they live in the same small town) and I only hear a few things from my older brother who does remain in civil contact.

I certainly don’t wish him dead, nor would say I hope he dies in a plane crash - but at the same time, don’t particularly give a shit about anything he does or says and am quite fine with never having any more contact with him. To be honest, he was always a pain in the ass and you had to watch every word for fear of offending him, but he was very quick in spewing off his bile whenever something didn’t fit into his realm.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, and sometime you could probably even pick your friend’s nose, but you can’t pick your relatives.

I don’t see any upswing to reaching out to a family member who bases your relationship on a whim and the way the wind is blowing at the moment. Let it go.

I have the same situation except for it being the older brother in my case. I agree with you. I’ve tried to reconcile with him at his request, and I was a fool, he just used it as an opportunity be an even bigger asshole.

Yes, those two more pacifist posts appeal to me too.

But, on the better man thing, I tried that, I really did, and it didn’t work. I tried to be the better man for 10+ years by not speaking badly of my mother, even though she had thrown us out of her house and then continually maligned me and my wife to anyone who would listen.

I tried to be the better man by not burdening my family members with my tears and pain, only for my mother to more than compensate with her own.

I also tried to be the better man three times by deciding that feuds are stupid for everyone and that my mother deserved another chance to welcome my wife into the family. Three times this worked for several months, only for her to slip back into her old narrow-minded habits. Let’s see how the current (4th) truce goes…

Being the better man may have worked for the likes of Christ and Gandhi, but not so well for me.

(sorry, just a little bit bitter there. I got myself on a roll :smiley: )

Another vote for “fuck him”. Of course, he’s not my brother.

It would seriously piss me off if he reached out to me for his wedding, after ignoring the birth of his nephew. It makes me seriously question his motives. Has he even met your son?

That, the airplane comment and the fact that he cut you out of his life would be way too much for me to forgive unless he made some serious apologies.

How much do you want to reconcile with your brother? If you want to reconcile, then you could try stating up front that you’d like to have a good relationship again, but lay some ground rules about how you won’t talk about your problems with your mother, and you won’t hear anything bad spoken about your wife. If he steps over the line, be prepared to leave the gathering immediately or hang up the phone call or whatever. Also, don’t expect an apology, because I don’t know how likely you are to get one.

If you don’t have any great desire to reconcile, then you should feel the need to. It’d be nice if everyone got along great with their families, but it’s not the case for everyone. If you are like **DMark **and have no great desire to see your brother, then there’s nothing wrong with that.

I just wanted to say that you did a good thing defending your wife. I’ve read so many letters to advice columns where a mother-in-law is viscous to a woman and the husband does nothing, so it’s nice to read something where the husband doesn’t allow that. A husband and wife are supposed to be a team and stand up for each other, and it’s good that you do that.

I think I’d e-mail him back and tell him that I don’t feel, based on our last conversation, that he truly accepts my and my family. Since my my family is my first priority, unless they can be fully accepted, there’s no reason to continue to be in touch.

You need to make him understand where he fits in the hierarchy - below your wife and child. If he (and your mother) can’t embrace them as members of the family, they’re, by their actions, shutting off ties to you.

StG

I’m with DMark. Unless you have some big need for your brother in you life, just forget about him. Of course he’ll probably bring in other family members to his side if you don’t show up at his wedding. Be prepared to have to dump them also.

I’ve dumped a few good friends and family members when they became jackasses. I’ve also had a couple of people dump me over the years. So it goes. A few have wandered back into my life through chance meetings and things like funerals, but I’ve never gone out of my way to patch things back up ESPECIALLY when I have the feeling that sometime in the future, the same type of thing will happen again. Life is too short.

Since you’re not willing to let the past go unless you get an apology and he doesn’t appear to be willing to apologize, it doesn’t sound like this reconciliation is going to happen. Emailing him and telling him that he was out of line has a better chance of reigniting the feud than making your brother say he’s sorry. He knows what he said and he has to know it hurt you.

If I felt the way you do, I’d either respond to the email with **StGermain’s **suggestion or not respond at all.

You all sound toxic for each other. I’d keep my distance.

I like this idea - telling him clearly where the boundaries are. If you can achieve some peace in your family with not too great an effort, I say go for it. My brother-in-law hasn’t spoken to us in four years, since he cut us out of his life because we bought a house and didn’t use him as the real estate agent; if I could make this stupidness go away with a simple email, I would. It’s a pain in the ass to have a rift in your immediate family.

The good thing about being an adult is that you get to pick the people you want to spend your time developing and maintaining relationships with. Your brother can live his life, while you live yours.

If it were me, I’d very politely decline the invitation, wish him luck and love with his new wife, and go back to forgetting all about him for months/years at a time.

I disagree with how to reply. This doesn’t seem like it’s worth the effort to try to “fix”. Bringing up past actions and setting boundaries and making warnings and asking for apologies is just so much work for absolutely zero chance of payoff. All it will do is stir up the old pot, ruin George’s day (and Orville mogul’s) and renew the feud.

Better to be like strangers, imo.