Should telemarketing be outlawed?

Great Debates
61

flowbark:

Really.

You know, it occurs to me that I have better things to do than wait while a train crosses the street in front of me when I’m out driving. I propose that Burlington Northern reimburses me for my time.

And to bring it all together, I’m willing to bet that most people would rather not wait for trains to pass, so I’ll also propose that trains are only allowed to hold up drivers who specifically request to be held up, and the train must wait to the side of the street while everyone else crosses the tracks. All those who would sign up to wait for the train, please raise your hands.

How do you determine the amount to which they “burden society”? Would higher-paid individuals be worth more, so a telemarketer who talks to a CEO is taxed at $100/hr, while one who talks to a fry cook is only taxed at $6.50/hr?

And what about geographic variation? Your proposed $12/hr is a bit steep for a town like mine, where the average wage is only $8/hr.

62

And to bring it all together, I’m willing to bet that most people would rather not wait for trains to pass, so I’ll also propose that trains are only allowed to hold up drivers who specifically request to be held up, and the train must wait to the side of the street while everyone else crosses the tracks. All those who would sign up to wait for the train, please raise your hands.

Trains are necessary. Telemarketers aren’t.

63

When people say “I’m not interested” at the start of your pitch, what they’re really saying is, “I’m trying to politely refuse you. Now say ‘good-bye’ so I don’t have to be rude.” People don’t like to be rude as a general rule, so when you decide to misinterpret their polite lies, you’re harassing them. It’s easy for you to say, “They should just say what they mean,” because you’re not the one dealing with the harassment. You’re not the one who has to be rude to the nice salesperson on the other end.

I’ve found lying works best.

TM: “Is this the lady of the house?”
Me: “No. She moved to Indochina. I think it’s near Mexico.”

TM: “May I speak with Mr. Harker?”
Me: “My husband died yesterday.” (Boy, that one shuts 'em up fast)

TM: “How would you like a great deal on aluminum siding?”
Me: “I live in an apartment.”

Actually, we recently moved into a house and decided to get an unlisted number this time around. So far, in three months of living here, we’ve only gotten one telemarketer call.

And on an amusing anecdote, a phone number we had a few years ago was apparently recently reverted back from someone else at the time. For a solid year, we got calls for that couple. The really weird thing is that not all of the calls were from telemarketers (I could honestly tell them that they weren’t there). Some were obviously from friends. I was deathly curious as to what had happened to that couple since no one that knew them knew that their phone number had changed. Oh, and I did use the Indochina spiel on a telemarketer that called for them once. She was terribly confused until I explained that it was “somewhere down south.” :slight_smile:

cj

P.S. What the hell is Indochina anyway?

64

RoboDude:

Nonsense. Products can be shipped by truck or barge instead of train, just like they can be marketed by TV/radio/mail instead of telephone. The company has simply decided that it’s more cost effective to use a train (or a telemarketer), and we let them do it even though it’s an annoyance.

cjharker:

Sure I am. I’ve talked to telemarketers before, and I’ve had no trouble with them. I find out what they’re offering, decide whether I want it, and let them know. You don’t have to be rude to refuse.

65

A real, honest-to-goodness, factual question: Is telemarketing a peculiarly U.S. (or North American) phenomenon? Does this go on in, say, Norway? Or Europe in general?

66

I lived in France for ten years, and did receive a few telemarketing calls, but the total was less than ten during the entire time I lived there. Not sure about other European countries.

67

[Warning: Economic Theory ahead]

Fair enough. In both cases we are talking about what economists call a “Negative Externality”, or market behavior which has a deleterious effect on uninvolved, involuntary bystanders (loose definition).

The classic example is pollution. I like my car, but if its materials were produced by an unregulated steel mill, it would be -yes- too inexpensive, since its price wouldn’t include the damage done to the lungs of the mill’s neighbors.

For that reason, there are pollution regulations. Usually the government chooses a “command and control” solution: they tell the plant what sort of equipment it must install.

Sometimes, though, the government chooses a market-oriented form of regulation: believe it or not they actually auction off the right to emit certain pollutants. The advantage here is that the lowest-cost modifications tend to be made for a given level of pollution emitted.
Now, getting back to the point, negative (and positive) externalities tend to be pretty ubiquitous. Ugly people, I suppose, are a drag to look at. Clearly certain mildly anti-social conduct should be simply tolerated.

Trains:
The problem with taxing train-stops is that it would encourage them to either 1) speed up near crossings or 2) not react at all. In the first case, the proposed policy would be dangerous. In the second it would be pointless.

(BTW: Trains traditionally have been a highly regulated industry, far more so they telemarketing, I imagine. There would be way fewer train overpasses, if train executives were allowed to lay tracks wherever they wanted. Check the Federal Railway Administration’s website if you’re a train buff.)

Taxing telemarketing, in contrast, would displace annoying behavior in favor of more socially constructive forms of advertising in newspapers, etc.

Finally and most importantly:
Indochina is that peninsula below China that includes Vietname, Laos, etc. :slight_smile:

68

Average wages in the US are about $14. (BLS website) So, I’ll see your 8 and raise you 6. :slight_smile:

I agree it would be better if the fee were tailored to each specific call; that seems like overkill though. If you want to vary the tax by the zip code of the person receiving the call, that would be ok with me. More broadly, wage data by state is also available at the BLS website.

Personally, I’d be happy with a single, national tax of $12 per hour, indexed for inflation (less paperwork). Even $8 would be better than the status quo…

69

Additionally, trains that take longer than x minutes (sorry, don’t remember the exact time) to clear an intersection during “rush hours” - enough to cause an inconvenience to anyone stuck at that intersection - can result in a fine or ticket for both the operator and the company.

Without one of the poor souls stuck behind said train having to contact anyone.

On a related note, does anyone know if telemarketing companies have to honor a “do not call” request that is on an answering machine, as opposed to one that’s given by a live person? I’ve been having such a problem - and yes, Mr. 2001, I do use the magic phrase :rolleyes: when they call - that I’ve been giving serious consideration to changing my message.

70

As much as i can apperiate everyones dislike of telemarketing allow me this few moments of verboseness…
I have worked in telemarketing and just might again.Y?
because there is awsome money in it.The co. i worked for not only paid hourley,but also bonuses and comission.
a sale made by a salesman from a acontact by me can pay upto 75$ on a 10,000sale(not difficult in home improvement)

Wether I bother you during dinner hour is of no importance or significance to me whatsoever and I do not feel bad because YOU decided to answer your phone.
You do have a phone wich implies you WANT to be called.
Legal calling hours for telemarketing is 9to9 in the area called.You don’t want to talk to a TSR,don’t answer the phone between those hour…DUH
Prime calling hours are between 5pm and 9 pm.so,lets call that a DUH

Not all TSRs are freeloading ripoff artists.Among the people I have worked with are…Mentaly retarded.Read off a piece of paper…Mentally Ill,Would you hire a Schito for YOUR job?..Physically Handicaped,Sitting at a phone…College Students and Retireees,Part time and regulation of income…General workersincluding Moms returning to the workforce…Kids with no real workhistory…drunks who can’t keep a job anywhere else… Temp workers looking for something else ETC…

Find a reason to R&R about telemarketers all you want but like a Principal or a Cop, it’s a job to do that people Don’t like you very much for doing,and as long as it WORKS companies will do it.

as for getting rid of us.The “Do Not Call"usually works well.But do not say anything RUDE.In our office that GOT you a return call in spades.Most TSRs will back off if you ask the magic 8 questions.Giving the"I’ll Sue” speech just has a TSR laughing at you when you hang up.

So give the TSR a break and just politely hang up and WRITE the company calling you.you can catch more flies with honey than vinigar

And for whatever it is worth to you…Best estimates say that telemarketing will be a dead issue in 10 years.If you can’t wait that long…GET RID OF YOUR PHONE!!!

71

dogsbody:

I’m not sure what the requirement is… I know we don’t accept it from children or visitors. But it might not get heard at all unless your message is interesting enough; normally I hit redial as soon as I hear “Hi, you’ve reached”.

My searching hasn’t come up with an answer. However, I did find an explanation for missing caller ID information: larger telemarketers often don’t use individual phone lines. They might use a T1, which combines 24 circuits in one line but has no phone number or means to transmit identification.

72

:smiley:

73

In some states, telemarketing is already illegal.

At the top of every page of an Oregon telephone directory (the U.S. West White Pages) are the words “Commercial solicitation calls prohibited by law.”

74

Y’know, I wasn’t gonna respond to this, but I just couldn’t resist. Babe, I’m taking you to the Pit.

75

I haven’t really been following this thread, but this reminded me of a story. My brother-in-law got a call offering carpet cleaning, and he told them “We don’t have floors.” Still makes me chuckle.

And let me heartily endorse that Pit thread. It’s a thing of beauty.

76

Back home in Denmark, telemarketing (and door-to-door sales) is illegal, except for books & newspaper subscriptions (not magazines). I got perhaps two calls/year. The only other unsolicited phone calls I’ve had were from polling agencies.

Here in Germany, I’ve never been called.

Danish books & newspapers enjoy some legal privileges over other goods, as they were once seen as essential parts of educating the public. Newspapers are sold without VAT, book prices are (still) regulated etc. Not exectly free-market, but otherwise, who in their right mind would want to print a book for a market this small ? - sorry, digression.

S. Norman

77

Mr2001

Admittedly, I only have hands-on experience with European telephony (we call it an E1 and it has 30 channels plus a signalling channel).

But I’ll bet a cold Heineken against a ditto Budweiser that you can configure a T1 with A-number signalling, if your switching gear is anything near modern.

Cisco routers and access servers most certainly come replete with features to verify, modify, validate, fold, spindle and mutilate caller/callee IDs going in & out of a T1.

S. Norman

78

Got a bit of legal question. If someone calls me is anything I say to them harrasement? Also related will telemarketers do anything about it if it is harrasement?

Specifically I’m thinking of really loud and irritating sounds. Not that I’d do that to a poor TSR, I’m just curious.

79

Actually, that isn’t true anymore, at least in the US West/Dex phone book I have, good thru Sept 2001. But when it did say that at the top of the page, it was only for the listings that had a black dot next to their name.

So, unfortunately, they can call all they want to. I have an unlisted phone number and have never gotten a telemarketing call. Am I missing something fun? :smiley:

80

The Tim:

I’m not sure about legality. I’m inclined to think that you can be held liable for some things you say on the phone (death threats, etc.) no matter who placed the call. However, it’d probably have to be a pretty big deal to provoke any action…

… and I doubt that would cut it. We listen to fax machines and modems all day.