Why should people settle? It’s not written anywhere that everone has to permenantly couple up before they die. OTOH, if you are so picky you aren’t even meeting people, that’s a problem and your expectations might be out of line with reality.
Nobody’s saying you have to couple up or else. If you’re not interested in such, or are neutral about it, by all means disregard the whole issue. But a whopping lot of women actively want to find a long-term relationship, and having unrealistically high expectations for a partner only hinders achieving that goal.
Well, Lori Gottlieb does.
I’m a loner so would rather be single forever than date someone I wasn’t crazy about. People drive me nuts in general; I just couldn’t be with someone who wasn’t a good fit. My boyfriend is the only person I’ve ever known whose company I enjoy as much as being alone. Plus, he has many wonderful quirks and qualities and is smart and kind and funny and handsome. Is he ‘perfect’? No way. But we’re extremely well-suited, more so than the average couple it seems to me.
I’m super-picky and my ‘list’ is 10 miles long. But it doesn’t include some of the standard items. I actually prefer that someone I’m with doesn’t have a big career, doesn’t make a lot of money, and doesn’t pursue social status. I’m a homebody communist type, wouldn’t mesh well with that sort of person, and I doubt we’d share a lot of other important values.
But that’s just me. I think I have more leeway to be ridiculously picky than some, because most people think I am pretty. If I wasn’t I might well have been alone forever unless I was more flexible.
I could never date someone with red or blond hair. Is this really so crazy?
IMO thats the biggest problem. The hyper picky never even give someone a chance to let em wow em, with them finally realizing that “one thing” really didnt matter.
So very, very true. I had a lot of bad things happen to me in my life, but when someone asks me if I regretted them or would rather of traded for a different kind of life, I’d say no. They all lead me to the man I married and I’m happy for that. I love him. In a way I’m glad all that bad stuff happened. It made me who I am and led me to the man I love.
Lori Gottlieb brings the crazy! A quote from the Atlantic article:
Ummm…what about all the women out there who HAVE traded places with you?
Guess what lady? Women choose to divorce all the time. I did. I’m 38 years old. I have no husband. I scrupulously avoid serious relationships. And I’m happier than I’ve ever been. Do you really think I’d be happier married to some guy I wasn’t that into?
It speakes for itself.
Thank you! I’ve never understood that attitude in ANYone over the age of consent. YOU put yourself there, YOU stayed there…if it sucked that bad, why didn’t you leave? And if it was good most of the time and just not ‘good enough’ to ‘last forever’, how on earth is that ‘wasted time’? Men do this more than women, in my opinion, though I suspect women are worried about the biological clock a little more.
People, regardless of gender, should have reasonable expectations. No one is perfect, so you’re not going to find someone perfect for you. Hell, chances are likely you won’t find anyone particularly compatible with you in the long run.
That said, no one should “settle” or accept someone out of some societal faux-obligation to get coupled up. For some reason we lives in a society where it’s not okay to be single; it’s perfectly fine and normal, and kind of obnoxious that if you’re not actively seeking Mr. Right, something’s see as wrong with you.
I agree it’s about being realistic.
For instance in the OP post,
Well if she wasn’t attracted to redheads, what is she gonna do?
When I was in my 30s I wanted to find a relationship. I’m gay so it’s a bit different, but people said, “Mark you’re too choosy.” So I went out with anyone who asked me regardless of sexual attraction, or common interests etc.
All that happened is I met a bunch of men who found out I wasn’t attracted to them and hurt their feelings.
I would rather be alone then be with someone who only was with me, “'Cause he couldn’t do any better.”
Women especially get conflicting messages.
I remember in the 70s and before women always wanted to have any kind of a date on Saturday night. Then came along Mary Tyler Moore, who made it hip and OK not to go out but to say at home on Saturday night.
But that was a mixed message.
The woman gained 22 minutes of laughter and a lesson in being their own woman. However by not dating anyone, even the losers on the blind dates, they forfeited any chance of finding a husband.
What they failed to see was the real message was it’s OK to be single as long as you’re thin and pretty have two wacky neighbors and COULD get married, but you are just choosing NOT to.
What was even worse was after the show ended if they weren’t lucky enough to have Rhoda and Phyllis as friends you were back to being dateless on Saturday night with no additional hilarity.
What they also failed to realize was the REAL Mary Tyler Moore was already married, so was Rhoda. TV is not life.
Then there are those self actualized weirdoes will point out that love comes from inside you, and while that love that comes from “inside you,” is nice, it doesn’t cuddle up to you or tell you “things will be all right.”
Still they have a point, no one else can make you happy, though I do suspect Darren Hayes could point me in the right direction to say the least.
Married folk on the other hand. tend to equate wedlock with hemlock. They constantly want me to tell them about the excitement I have, the orgies I attend and the mind-blowing orgasms I have.
And, so of course, I tell them the plots to the porn movies I rent. See porn can come in handy, sometimes. I usually just tell them the plot, smirk a little then head home with my head of peanut butter cups, to count sheep and talk to the stuck up cat that peaks inside my window occasionally.
Do you guys suppose it would be fair to say most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be, and that goes for dating, marriage, and relationships, too?
Absolutely not. Clinical depression is a big problem lately, and you can’t merely will that away. Same for other mental disorders.
As for mentally “normal” people: yes, they often self-sabotage their happiness. But it’s not conscious, and they need to learn how to fix it, not just somehow will themselves over it, as that will often cause things to get worse in the long run.
The main reason women should settle is if they already have too high expectations. But that’s because those expectations are causing their unhappiness.
I think men are more likely to stay in an unfulfilling relationship (absent kids) because we’re less proactive when it comes to our love lives, but IME we’re much less likely to complain about it afterwards.
Obviously, it applies to both genders, though. Spread the gospel!
I thought the addendum “absenting mental disorders” was understood, but my bad. I’ve been around long enough to know that isn’t the case.
Well, the thing that is happening here is that we are all aware that some people are single not because they choose/prefer to be, but because of some shortcoming on their part- they are obnoxious, socially stunted, self-diagnosed ‘aspie’, immature, dense, or some other flaw.
The problem with this is that when someone is single, its not always easy to tell 1.) The reason and 2.) Whether they prefer to be single. Some people can choose to be single yet come off as very flirty. Other people can use the ‘I’m happier being alone’ as an excuse to rationalize that they might honestly be very unpleasant to be around, but because they don’t want to admit that to themselves or bother to change anything, its simply easier for them to come off as though they feel better alone, when maybe in reality they are desperate inside but don’t want to project that insecurity.
I finished this book yesterday, and I thought it was great - practical, sensible and humorous as well. The main jist of it was that if you go into a relationship with a laundry list of “wants” - must be at least this tall, must be at least this well-educated, must like sports, etc, etc - it gets statisically harder and harder to find anyone, because as you get older the pool of available people gets smaller, and the pool of available who are interested in you gets smaller still!
Instead, you should focus on what your needs are - and you can have no more than three - and try to meet people who have those qualities, even if they don’t have your wants, and see what develops. In the author’s case, these turned out to be family-friendly (she has a son), intellectually curious and kind - values that mattered to her, rather than more superficial stuff.
I’m married, but it still all made a lot of sense to me, as well as providing some reassurances that my marriage really is “good enough”. My husband and I may not meet everyone of each others “wants” - we don’t share many interests, I’m much more outgoing than he is, he’s much more stable and organised than me - but we do meet each others needs, and that’s the foundation on which our marriage is built. It’s a good book, I’d recommend it.
I don’t think I’m unique, but I’m not seeing anyone tell my story. I’ve been involved in a number of serious relationships over the years, and have been madly in love several times. The love has continued, but my desire to be in a live-in relationship has simply always faded over time. As a result, I’ve left some serious wreckage along the way, without ever intending to hurt anyone. I’m simply not well-equipped to be married, or, probably even seriously dating anyone over the long haul.
Now I’m in my fifties, and I’ve simply given up entirely. It’s not that my standards were unrealistic; it’s that I’m not a long-term relationship person. I now know better than to even try, because I realize that ultimately, I don’t want to spend my life (or a significant portion of it) with another person.
TO relate what I’m saying more directly to this thread, I’d say that if anything, my standards weren’t high enough. Not because the men I loved weren’t good enough, but because NO ONE was ever going to be good enough to sustain my interest in being with them permanently. I’m sorry for the hurt I caused, but I don’t think the years spent with me were utterly wasted for the people involved, and they certainly weren’t wasted for me. It’s just that, for me, ultimately, relationships could never really win out over solitude.
Fortunately for all involved, I never wanted nor had children, nor did I ever deprive someone who wanted them of having them. Things might have been very different if children were involved. But then, I probably would have ended up feeling about any children I had the same way I ended up feeling about my SOs - I would have loved them, but ultimately preferred their absence to their presence.
It probably sounds like I’m incredibly lonely, but I’m not; I’m just alone. There’s a big difference.
Does any of this make any sense to anyone else?
I find it actually hilarious when some women say they want this super rich guy this super rich doctor, this super rich handsome tall guy… Women you want to know a HUGE big secret well not really a secret when you get into the “real world”. The secret is all those doctors/medical field that yeah make money they work the shiiest hours, when you work 9-5, you get home from work he the (oh so rich doctor/medical guy) is getting ready for his work, so no time to “hang out”, you get to eat dinner all by yourself, oh then comes the great part when holidays roll around guess what??? You get to spend holidays all by yourself, since your oh so (rich doctor/medical) guy has to work almost all holidays. For holidays be prepared to spend your holidays with your family if you live close but certainly without your (doctor/medical) husband. Then when you want to go do some fun things on the weekend… Guess what??? He’s going to have to work almost all weekends so weekends are out for you… Yeah the key word though is eventually as in (several years) he will start to get better hours and a few weekends off but you the lady that was looking for the oh so rich tall (doctor/medical guy) you’ll be married alright but will have to wait a good 10, 15, 20 YEARS to get that semi normal life of having holidays together on the actual holiday, get to actually have a weekend with him… Oh wait I almost forgot something then when he does have a weekend off, or a day of here and there you’ll not be able to go to far cause he then will be “ON CALL”. Oh then also when you get home from your 9-5 you have to then also be quiet cause he then has to sleep during the day. So you really don’t even get to sleep together for a good 10- 20 years!!! A word to the wise medical people don’t belong with the 9-5ers unless you want to be miserable always planning around his/her shiy schedule and always having to rearrange everything cause of their awful hours… Exactly why no matter how much they make I refuse to date a lady in the medical field cause of their awful hours and I want to actually hang out with her instead of always waiting for her to come home and I don’t want to rearrange my schedule around hers. Oh have fun with your rich, tall (doctor/medical) oops I meant have fun with him after you wait for your (doctor/medical) husband for the next 10,15, 20 years :D!!!
Apparently medical types and zombies mix OK though.