There is something in there that I find annoying - which is the feeling that you are entitled to an explanation - rather than “I know Deb, there is probably a good reason she doesn’t want booze.”
We have become a society where we need an explanation so we can judge the validity of someone else’s actions. But its really a rude thing to expect someone is going to disclose personal information. And it really shows a lack of trust and respect for other people’s judgement. In the end, does it make that much difference if someone is in recovery, or if someone just lost someone in a drunk driving incident and is triggery about booze, or if someone found God in the “thou shall not imbibe” sense? (I mean, I might not attend the SECOND party of the recently converted, but the first party will give a a good idea how much God bothering I’ll have to deal with, and I can always get a headache an hour into the party when the Bible verses start getting read.)
All I was saying was that given the restricted information in the OP, it was easy to make a snap wrong decision. I don’t think people need to explain their every motivation, but when there’s a needle scratch change to an ongoing behavior, people tend to balk a little. That’s all.
But, again, if it is someone you know and love and expect to show good judgment, it’s appropriate to just trust that they DO have a good reason. That’s what is meant by the benefit of the doubt, and it’s a very basic thing to extend to those to whom we are close.
And I find your position rather inconsistent. You seem to acknowledge that there are good reasons and not good reasons to ban alcohol at a gathering, yet you don’t think guests deserve to know the reason they’re being asked to attend a party at which they will not be able to do something they typically enjoy at parties? Do you think hosts are entitled to their guests’ attendance?
This is a bit of a tangent, but I’ve seen a trend with weddings that I worry may be spilling over into other types of parties. It’s essentially this sense of entitlement by the hosts that their guests will participate in this dream theatrical production of theirs, without regard for the comfort or enjoyment of those guests. I’m talking about outdoor weddings in inclement weather because it’s scenic, or indoor weddings where there isn’t enough seating because it just has to take place here and we can’t cut our guest list so people will just have to stand. Weddings where the guests have to endure a lengthy ceremony followed by a lengthy cocktail hour without food while the bridal party takes a kajillion pictures. Destination weddings. Theme weddings where guests are instructed to wear a particular color or dress for a particular era.
Now that most of my peers are married, I’m starting to see/hear about this crap at baby showers and milestone birthday parties. Potlucks where guests are tasked with coming up with an entree that’s vegan, gluten- and soy-free, and serves 8-10 people (oh and a gift, too, of course; here’s our registry info). Long weekend getaways to places that don’t have reliable internet access, or enough parking for you to take your own car in case you need to leave early, because who cares if you have a job you can’t just up and leave whenever? And yes, alcohol-free events because some non-drinkers just prefer that no one else drink, either, and they think anyone who would take issue with that is just an alcoholic. Whatever the reason, some people have a tendency to forget that what matters is that the people you invite enjoy themselves, and they’re more likely to do that if you don’t try to control their behavior so tightly. If you want people to come and play by your rules, it’s only fair to tell them your reasons so they can decide if it’s worth it.
And if there’s a needle scratch then, well, like a number of us inferred, there was a damned good reason for it. Why would you think anything else? Just trust the person throwing the party, and if there’s a reason they are not telling you why, assume there is a good reason or, better yet, just don’t give a shit what the reason is and accept someone wants a party without booze.
I don’t find it inconsistent at all - I mean, if I invite you to a dry party and you don’t trust me to have a good reason for it being dry just don’t come. Presumably, if you don’t trust me to have a good reason , we aren’t that close and it won’t be an issue. I wonder though why you think guests are entitled to know the reason why there won’t be alcohol at the party - do you really think you have a right to know that two of my uncles are alcoholics and that when my cousins drink they have a tendency to get into fist fights*? Especially since there’s a good chance I haven’t told those uncles and cousins that they are the reason there isn’t any alcohol at the party
I can’t help but think your view is colored by the people you know- because a lot of what you describe is incomprehensible to me
* Which is not the case - drunkenness in my family is far more likely to involve 70+ year old men pantsing each other and the 70+ women smashing cakes into each other’s faces
We had at least one poster insisting that not allowing alcohol at one’s party is an unfair restriction of individual liberties and is only done by intolerant people.
And there seem to me to have been several people who think there’s somehow something wrong about not offering alcohol to guests, and/or who at least were just utterly astonished at the idea that people could have a party without booze.
No, I don’t.
If somebody who usually provides a full sit-down dinner with all the trimmings announces that this year’s party is to be a potluck, I don’t think I’m entitled to know whether they’re sick of cooking, in financial trouble, have six vegetarians coming and don’t want to figure out how to cook without bacon grease, or just decided they want some variety. It’s their business. It’s also their business if they don’t want alcohol, or meat, or anybody under 14, or dogs, or anyone to stay after 7 PM; even if I’m used to showing up with three small children and two dogs and expecting us all to crash on the couch. They don’t owe me an explanation.
And I don’t owe them one if I decline. They don’t need to know, and are not entitled to know, whether I can’t stand their brother in law’s conversation or their own, or am unwilling to go anywhere without my dog, or don’t dare leave the children with anybody in case my ex shows up to kidnap them, or can’t afford the gas money to get there, or just want to spend that day sacked out on the couch not having to move.
If you don’t like the parties you’re being invited to: don’t go to those parties. And if the reason you don’t want to go to the parties is because
how would any of that be helped by an explanation? In the last case, the explanation seems to have made matters worse.
In either case, it’s insisting on explanations that seems to me to be rude, whether it’s the guests or the hosts who are demanding them.
I did grumble about the Orthodox bar mitzvah where the hostess was REALLY specific about what we should wear, and also opined that doing so would be really easy (hey, she owns lots of hats, and other Orthodox-rules-friendly garments) but I managed to find suitable garments, and decided it wasn’t my problem that they didn’t match and I looked a little odd. And in that case, I knew the reason, it was just the tone of the instructions that I found annoying.
Nope, I don’t think hosts are entitled to their guests attendance (unless they RSVPed, in which case, guests are responsible for showing up and an apology - although not an explanation, is due if they don’t) nor do I think that hosts are entitled to an explanation for why their guests don’t show up (even if they don’t show up after an RSVP - although I would hope not to log in to Facebook and discovering that instead of attending my dinner party where I made extra lamb and creme brulee for them and made sure I had gluten free rolls since they avoid gluten that they got a better offer to go see a movie with a friend).
Agreed. I’ll add my voice as well to those saying, no you aren’t owed an explanation. If that bothers you, don’t come. Do we need long checksheets before invites like you are perusing hotel websites to see what amenities are offered?
OK, fair enough. You tell your guests, “this is how it’s gonna be, like it out lump it.” I’ll tell my guests, “I get it, this is an unusual ask. Here’s why I’m being particular.” Clearly I’m not the only one who feels this way; look how the tenor of this thread changed when we got an explanation.
It’s interesting to compare this thread with the one I started about whether people who snore should warn their traveling companions. A number of people seemed to feel that, if you shared a room with someone about whom you didn’t already know such intimate details, any resulting sleeplessness was something you brought on yourself. I see this general sort of attitude a lot, especially with older people. Essentially it’s “I don’t branch out. If I don’t already know everything about you, I’m not going to bother to find out. If you don’t already know everything you need to know about me, too bad.” There’s no room for the idea of knowing someone well enough to want to get to know them better. No room for the idea of a growing friendship that’s at the stage where a strange request might have a perfectly reasonable explanation, or might be the tip of an iceberg of basic incompatibility. Also no room for the idea that people change over time, and someone who was once pleasant to hang out with has suddenly turned into a moralizing scold. Personally, I prefer to communicate with people instead of drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides. But you do you.
I’m not saying its an unusual desire - I’m saying its a rude demand. It is not something you are entitled to, no matter how much you might want to know or believe you are entitled to know. You might have an entitlement to know if food and beverage will be provided - and even what the menu entails, so that you can make other plans if you are an in recovery alcoholic vegan showing up to Bob’s Brat and Beer Bashorama (oh, you’ll be providing salads and fizzy water, great - or, I’d love to come, should I bring a salad and fizzy water. Or, I’ll be coming, but don’t plan on feeding me, I’ll eat before I arrive since feeding a vegan is tough). You aren’t entitled to know WHY Bob chose Brats and Beer over salad and fizzy water or why he picked this weekend instead of next (when it would be far more convenient for you). Nor are you entitled to know that Bob snores because he has a deviated septum or because he sleeps on his back - although if you are going to be sharing a room, knowing that he snores allows you to bring earplugs or book a hotel room.
The thread was started not because the party was dry, but because at the last minute, the host “reminded” the guests that it would be dry. That’s weird, and that’s why guests were miffed, imho. If you invite someone to a picnic and the invitation says, upfront, that it will be dry, that’s different. No one feels like there’s been a bait and switch. If you don’t enjoy dry picnics, you just won’t plan on attending.
I don’t think, “hey, I’m inviting you to a party. Here are the details” is “like it or lump it”, it’s just an invitation. If i don’t want to deal with the vegan party, or the vodka bash, it whatever, then i politely decline.
It doesn’t mean i don’t care about my friend. Not asking “why are you serving brats” doesn’t mean I’m not interested in what my friend cares about.
As to the OP: Absolutely yes, but, also, no need to explain that much. Your house, your rules. The nomral expectation is “wet” so the heads up would be appreciated.
I don’t drink much, so not a problem at all for me. Most people, I imagine, can go to a gathering without having to drink alcohol for five hours.
My house had been a non-smoking house since I got it with my wife for 25 years, we don’t even have ashtrays. If someone really needs to take a puff, they go out and smoke on the street.
My, that’s a long jump from “you owe me an explanation for giving a particular type of party”. [ETA: not an exact quote.]
And being interested in getting to know somebody better has nothing to do with whether one wants to tell them about an alcoholic relative, or the details of a medical diagnosis, or the state of one’s bank account, or whatever the issue is, before one has already gotten to know them better.
Even if one already knows them well, maybe the party giver just can’t deal with explaining it all over again right now, or the relative doesn’t want it known, or one of the things the party giver knows is that the friend will try to Help and they don’t want Help right that minute, or I can think of lots of reasons that if even my best friend invited me to something and said ‘don’t bring wine’ or ‘I know I always cook you this great dinner but this time we’re going out to Subway’ that it’s not my business to demand to know why or be mad at them.
One of the things I want to know, when getting to know somebody, is if they’re going to demand total intimacy about everything every instant. Because to tell you the truth, if they are, I’m gonna run. I’ll make friends with people who understand boundaries. We will learn lots of things about each other – that each other want to give.
Ditto. Nor will I demand that you tell me why you’re not coming. Even if you came to the last six parties.
You know, you’d think so but the amount of people I’ve seen on many websites screaming the house down about a dry wedding says otherwise. I’ve seen people flat-out say “if you want me to go to your wedding you’d better have booze”. I’ve had guests sit in the lobby after the reception shredding the bride and groom to shreds because " the wedding was dry" or complain because the only booze was a glass of champagne for the toast.
I agree that the last minute switch was a bit of a problem; but I think that what was owed wasn’t an explanation, but an apology (for the late notice, of course, not for the dry party), and a letting-off-the-hook: something along the lines of ‘Sorry for the short notice, but we just realized that we forgot to let people know that this needs to be a no-alcohol party. If you were planning on bringing something with alcohol and it’s too late to easily change your contribution, please feel free to show up with just yourselves; we’ll make sure there’s plenty for everybody.’
Instead, they seem to have been forced into explanations by a number of people demanding to know whyyyy; with the result that the mortally ill person didn’t get what it seems like she wanted, one last party with everybody cheerful, instead of many of them carefully tiptoeing around her trying not to openly grieve and putting a damper on the whole thing.