*sigh* I hate dating *grumble grumble grumble*

[Alice_The_Goon]

@tdn

The cool is not about putting up a mask of not caring. It’s about not being too open right up front. I’ve seen countless people, both men and women, getting scared off because someone came on too strong. Opening with too strong a hand not only turns it into a chase, but a skeevy one.

Now you are feelin’ me.

I believe that dating is like a dance, with each step carrying enough weight to either make it soar or make it come crashing down. It is a game, and each move is deliberately calculated to keep the interest of the other. When first and second dates never seem to be able to move past that initial start, you may have to consider that you’re making the wrong moves.

Once the relationship is cemented, and you are a couple, then you should feel free to express your true feelings and desires of the other person, but until then it’s a very delicate thing. Throughout my extensive dating life, I’ve been told and have observed that men do like to do the pursuing, they don’t often feel comfortable with a woman that is aggressive in her desire for him, and they definitely don’t want a woman that is waiting for him to call.

You guys can bash the advice that things like Dating Without Drama offer and it sounds more PC and openminded and forward-thinking, but it doesn’t change anything. When it comes to dating, we are far more prehistoric than we’d like to admit.

[tdn]

@Alice The Goon

When it comes to dating, we are far more prehistoric than we’d like to admit.

Nailed it. In fact, one source of learning about relationships had a huge list of books for recommended reading. It didn’t surprise me that Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway was on the list. I was a little surprised that How to Win Friends and Influence People wasn’t. But the biggest surprise? The Selfish Gene. Honestly, Dawkins wrote a book about dating? Him? Yep.

Interesting story about opening too strong. (Strong as in too much, not strong as in masterful.)

It was long ago, but I remember being a temp at some company where there were a lot of temps, in an office setting. One day several more temps started. This included an attractive young lady a guy I’ll just call Mr. Desperate. First day, in fact first hour, Mr. Desperate made it known through his actions that he liked the attracive woman. He didn’t like her a little, he was IN LUV. And demonstrative of it.

At one point the woman mentioned to someone that she was thirsty, and she started to get up to go to the water cooler. Mr. Desperate literally sprang up and ran across the room, jumping over some furniture, so he could get to the cooler before her. He then gave her the cup that he’d poured for her as if he were a gallant knight come to rescue her.

That was not the only incident. Similar stuff happened about every ten minutes, throughout the day. Do the math. I’m sure in his mind he was building her love for him in a big way. To the rest of us, it was creepy. It was Try Hard taken to an almost psychotic level.

It impressed the young lady so much that at the end of the day, she asked for reassignment. Would she settle for him being reassigned? No. He’d still know where to find her.

Had he played it a bit more cool (a LOT more), he might have not creeped her out so much. Had he let her chase him a little, they might have even become friends or even more.

I think it’s great to be open and honest with how you feel towards someone. But if they are likely to return your affections with a restraining order, you might want to pull back just a wee tad.

[SailedTheOceanBlue]

@twickster

You people are on drugs. A “thank you” email comes across as desperate? :eek:

A simple thank you email does not come across as desperate. An email that sounds overly thought out with added link to pictures of your cats is a touch desperate.

Potentially, adding the link to your cats and having no other pictures in the account might give the appearance that you uploaded the pictures specifically for him. Even if that is not the case.

“Hey Joe, how was your date last night?”
“Dude, she sent me pictures of her cats.”

[Watcher_of_the_Skies]

Any chance he’s reading this thread?

If he spent any time reading this message board, he’d know he had a catch…

[DianaG]

@Alice The Goon

Now you are feelin’ me.

I believe that dating is like a dance, with each step carrying enough weight to either make it soar or make it come crashing down. It is a game, and each move is deliberately calculated to keep the interest of the other. When first and second dates never seem to be able to move past that initial start, you may have to consider that you’re making the wrong moves.

Once the relationship is cemented, and you are a couple, then you should feel free to express your true feelings and desires of the other person, but until then it’s a very delicate thing. Throughout my extensive dating life, I’ve been told and have observed that men do like to do the pursuing, they don’t often feel comfortable with a woman that is aggressive in her desire for him, and they definitely don’t want a woman that is waiting for him to call.

You guys can bash the advice that things like Dating Without Drama offer and it sounds more PC and openminded and forward-thinking, but it doesn’t change anything. When it comes to dating, we are far more prehistoric than we’d like to admit.

Gah. GAH!!!

Anyone who I have to work that hard to interest is TOO MUCH FREAKIN’ WORK. Do we REALLY need to be in a relationship so badly that we’re willing to behave like neanderthals?

[DianaG]

Dammit, missed the edit window.

You know, I’m all for not baring your soul on the second date. But that’s not because I’m worried about scaring him off, that’s because he has not *earned * that.

I can’t imagine sitting around worrying about whether whatever it is I’m thinking of saying or doing is going to be a dealbreaker. I don’t have that kind of time, because the world is full of people, and every time I step outside I meet more of them.

And my final concern is, while you’re spending all your time making sure that he likes you, when exactly do you contemplate, let alone decide, whether you like him?

[tdn]

@DianaG

And my final concern is, while you’re spending all your time making sure that he likes you, when exactly do you contemplate, let alone decide, whether you like him?

That’s Phase A3.

I’m sick as hell. Been so for a week. Fever and whatnot.

I have no business going out, but I’ve got cabin fever. I went out anyway. I’m a little buzzed now, but I opened a two-set and a three-set. Five new friends, four of which are female. And HOT.

This is amazing progress for me. Maybe everyday life for DianaG, but FREAKING HUGE for me.

And the two-set was amazing. Two amazingly hot college girls were totally into my stories and stuff. I ended up negging them, as my beer was getting warm. It grew warmer still as I opened the three-set. As the two-set left, they made sure to touch my hands with theirs. That was nice of them. Awesome chicks.

(Interestingly enough, they were talking to a man who was much younger, handsomer, and more haired in the right places than me. He was more interested in the football game than in them. The world is full of fool and idiots.)

I locked on to a nice lady in the three-set. She dug my stories. Her body language was – cooloish – but I kept her interested. Nice girl. And I chatted up the guy.

I have no social skills at all, but damn, for a guy with little skills and who’s out for nothing more than sitting alone in a corner and nursing a beer, I’d say I fucking owned that half of the room.

Not bad for a sick man. 'Night. I need some alone time in bed.

[KittyCat444]

@DudleyGarrett

Just going to say that twickster, you seem very desperate. That’s unattractive. Like others have said, you put yourself in the role of chaser. That’s also unattractive. If you sent me an e-mail the next morning after a date, I would have responded curtly with a “Thanks, I had a great time, too.” And that probably would have been the end of it.

Just providing a different prospective.

So…even if you enjoyed the date and really liked the girl, you’d get reject-y on her booty for an email sent too soon?

[TokyoBayer]

If it were me, then I would have loved getting that email, (although it would take a hell of a lot of explaining to my wife ). If we talked about cats, getting a link to cats seems perfectly normal to me. I don’t see this a looking deperate.

[chowder]

@fetus

Wait. You’re English. I thought you guys liked that.

Not in our women we don’t.

We prefer the fair sex to be exactly that, the fair sex.

Of course a tattoo of a Rottweiler holding a mangled Yorkshire Terrier in its jaws, blood everywhere, is always a plus especially if said tattoo is displayed across the wenches ample chest.

Cellulite, stretch marks and varicose veins glinting in the shadows cast by strategically placed candles are also good but personally I draw the line at bitten toenails.

Call me Mr Picky if you will

[VinylTurnip]

@Watcher of the Skies

Any chance he’s reading this thread?

If he spent any time reading this message board, he’d know he had a catch…

Or might grow anxious, realizing that every aspect of his burgeoning relationship might be discussed in detail on a public message board— starting with
the initial contact, in a thread titled sigh I hate dating grumble grumble grumble.

Assuming, of course, there exist men who would find this cheerful prospect discomfiting.

[twickster]

@Watcher of the Skies

Any chance he’s reading this thread?

If I were to ever talk to him again, I could try a nice “Hi Opal” on him to find out – but since, apparently, my chances of doing so are zero and plummeting, I’m not going to, so I guess I don’t have to worry about that.

[China_Guy]

All I can say is thank gawd I’m not in the market these days if sending an email or calling the next day is considered desperate and skeevy. I don’t like playing those games and all the women I’ve ever *wanted * to go out with didn’t either.

Different strokes and all, but life’s too short.

[Tapiotar]

@tdn

Nailed it. In fact, one source of learning about relationships had a huge list of books for recommended reading. It didn’t surprise me that Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway was on the list. I was a little surprised that How to Win Friends and Influence People wasn’t. But the biggest surprise? The Selfish Gene. Honestly, Dawkins wrote a book about dating? Him? Yep.

Interesting story about opening too strong. (Strong as in too much, not strong as in masterful.)

It was long ago, but I remember being a temp at some company where there were a lot of temps, in an office setting. One day several more temps started. This included an attractive young lady a guy I’ll just call Mr. Desperate. First day, in fact first hour, Mr. Desperate made it known through his actions that he liked the attracive woman. He didn’t like her a little, he was IN LUV. And demonstrative of it.

At one point the woman mentioned to someone that she was thirsty, and she started to get up to go to the water cooler. Mr. Desperate literally sprang up and ran across the room, jumping over some furniture, so he could get to the cooler before her. He then gave her the cup that he’d poured for her as if he were a gallant knight come to rescue her.

That was not the only incident. Similar stuff happened about every ten minutes, throughout the day. Do the math. I’m sure in his mind he was building her love for him in a big way. To the rest of us, it was creepy. It was Try Hard taken to an almost psychotic level.

It impressed the young lady so much that at the end of the day, she asked for reassignment. Would she settle for him being reassigned? No. He’d still know where to find her.

Had he played it a bit more cool (a LOT more), he might have not creeped her out so much. Had he let her chase him a little, they might have even become friends or even more.

I think it’s great to be open and honest with how you feel towards someone. But if they are likely to return your affections with a restraining order, you might want to pull back just a wee tad.

Well, yes, the case you cite isn’t one of showing normal interest – it’s an instant obsession. Playing it cool probably wouldn’t have helped this fellow, and it would have done a distinct disservice to the woman, who might have been fooled into thinking he was normal, only to suffer from his obsession later.

[Tapiotar]

@tdn

And of course you want to be polite and kind, but you don’t want to be a Nice Guy.

The kind of Nice Guy people disrespect is someone who pretends to be nice either because he is trying to manipulate someone, or because he lacks courage.

Genuine kindness and compassion take a lot of courage and integrity, and don’t come off the same way that pseudo niceness does.

[tdn]

@Tapiotar

The kind of Nice Guy people disrespect is someone who pretends to be nice either because he is trying to manipulate someone, or because he lacks courage.

Genuine kindness and compassion take a lot of courage and integrity, and don’t come off the same way that pseudo niceness does.

I can’t disagree with this, but as a recovering Nice Guy, I have to say we’re more clueless than Machiavellian.

[you_with_the_face]

I find myself agreeing with DianaG, but Alice is not wrong either.

In my experience, overanalyzing things and treating dating like a chess game makes things more stressful and difficult than they have to be. It also takes away a lot of the fun associated with meeting new people. I’m not my best when I’m devising ways to reel someone in, because it goes against my nature. And any hint of game-playing from a guy turns me off. If you say you’re going to call and you don’t? That shit is not attractive. I don’t like being chased, either.

BUT…(and this is where Alice makes good points)…to me, there is something attractive about someone who is a challenge. I like eggs that are a little tough to crack and books that are hard to read. A man that is available whenever I want them to be and always wants to be around me is probably someone who is going to smother me if they don’t bore me to death first. That’s not what I want.

But I agree with DianaG in that the minute you start putting on a show of acting like a touch to crack egg, that’s probably not going to work either. So the key is not to act like anything; it’s to be the type of person who has their own life and interests. In essence, be the type of person that you yourself are attracted to. The side-effect of that is you’ll never be too available for someone else and you’ll be too preoccupied with other things to sweat over a missed phone call or two.

twickster, I would let this one go, or at least move on to someone else. I’m not saying his excuse isn’t genuine, but staying in touch with you should be a priority, too. And it’s really not all that hard to call or email. If he doesn’t initiate contact with you this week, I suggest writing him off and not looking back.

[twickster]

@you with the face

twickster, I would let this one go, or at least move on to someone else. I’m not saying his excuse isn’t genuine, but staying in touch with you should be a priority, too. And it’s really not all that hard to call or email. If he doesn’t initiate contact with you this week, I suggest writing him off and not looking back.

I’m truly not invested in this, despite the desperation some seem to be discerning in my actions (and words). Either he’ll get back to me or he won’t, and at that point I’ll either be available to go out with him again or I won’t.

I’ve been doing this way too long to take it seriously.

[DudleyGarrett]

@Stranger On A Train

Clearly you should ignore him completely for a least three solid months and then check back and see if he’s still interested. After all, you don’t want to seem desperate, or indeed, even vaguely cognizant of his existance. That’ll bring him running. Oh, unless, of course, he’s using the same rulebook.

Stranger

I guess that’s one way to take it – if you want to be egregiously sarcastic about it, Melvin.

On the other hand, she could have waited a couple days and gave him a call if he didn’t call her first. Once you meet in person, dispense with the e-mail when it comes to heartfelt correspondence. It’s anti-social. And don’t call him or her the next day. Lightly analyze the date and really determine if you want to see them again, be introspective, and let them do the same. Don’t bombard (yes, bombard) them with an e-mail the next day.

To those of you who complain about games, you’re just mad because you’re not very good at the mating ritual. Regardless of what you think, there are ALWAYS mating games. The chase, the withdraw, the chase, etc. makes dating fun and exciting. I’m not talking about fucking with someone’s head, but keeping the other person on their toes is always good during the first month or so of a new relationship.

What twickster essentially did was kill that immediately. Her e-mail said to him, “I’m yours and I’m waiting.” Then she came here four hours later complaining that he didn’t respond. Yeee-ikes. The poor girl went head-over-heels on the first date (maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not – but that’s certainly the dude’s perception), and she’s beating herself up over it.

[DudleyGarrett]

@KittyCat444

So…even if you enjoyed the date and really liked the girl, you’d get reject-y on her booty for an email sent too soon?

It would definitely make me pause. It’s a date. It puts me in a situation where I have to respond to this person I had a date with last night, about whom I’m not entirely sure. In fact, what if I had a date the next night with someone else?

That’s why I said that my response would have been curt. Not rude, but very cordial.