I would just like to second this.
Phil flagged this thread to me and asked me to check it out, since he had attributed viewpoints to me in it and wanted to be sure that he was not misspeaking my view. And I have enough respect for Phil that if he should ask me to look at a thread in GQ on yak felching and give my opinion, I’d jump to do so.
On target, Phil, and thanks.
However, I need to draw a slight distinction here. The “gentle Jesus, meek and mild” who did indeed counsel “turn the other cheek” and numerous other lines about responding in love to calumny, also is noted for saying:
followed by a Pitworthy list of their offenses, following which he said they were
Conclusion? Either (a) Jesus was himself hypocritical, failing to practice what he preached – and I reject this interpretation, or (b) there are times and places to give vent to anger, when it will accomplish a greater purpose. I have challenged and rebuked Adam and more recently FoG for posting judgmental, snide attitudes and attributing them to Christ. And I feel no guilt for having done so; rather, I attempted to paint the picture of a nonjudgmental Christianity in the place of what they had said, and needed to call them to account for having apparently judged and rejected people whom Christ loved as much as them or me.
Now, some of Pepperlandgirl’s comments went just a trifle far for a religious debate, but…
This is the Pit, the place where a well-structured rant with blistering invective is practiced as an art form. And Pepperlandgirl did an outstanding job of reducing the Sneeviling One to the well-deserved state of ashes blowing in the wind. Might she have been more charitable? Well, maybe. But that’s for her to decide.
As for the quote that started this whole thing: my personal opinion is that the Mormon faith is a fantastic account of highly improbable events on which an arcane metaphysical structure that bears little relationship to my understanding of Christianity has been erected. But that is my opinion. And people for whose intelligence I have great respect, such as Monty, Snark, and Pepperlandgirl, do believe in that belief system. And I respect them for following it devoutly, and adhering to its tenets. And I will defend them (as I had occasion to do in behalf of Snark on one memorable thread) for following it, a la Voltaire.
'Nuff said?
What exactly did Sneevil do again? Sorry, but I’m lost.
Matthew 6:14-15
As someone who thinks snivel is a troll, and said so on another thread, I feel I must comment here. Especially since Phil… um… envoked me…
Anyway, what I think Phil and Jodi are trying to say, pepperlandgirl (and lest you accuse me of playing favorites, while I love Phil, jodi and I do not exchange recipies at all, and I have no beef with you either) is that you are making yourself look hypocritical here.
Now, I feel you are totally justified in calling a spade a spade. But you must understand that once you set yourself up by labelling yourself (in this case, you label yourself a Christian - Mormon to be exact), you have to live up to that label.
Phil and jodi don’t think you ARE living up to that label. They are perfectly justified to do so, IMHO, especially since you have issues with another oster for essentially the same thing.
Now, there are a couple of things you could do when this criticism met you.
One, you could have looked at it, realized that Phil (while not mincing any words about it and maybe being rude because of it) did have a point, and maybe that would be the impetus to look into your heart and reexamine your words here.
Another, you could have pointed out to Phil (et al) that there is nothing inconsistant with the way you are acting and how you labelled yourself - maybe even offer some evidence to that effect - to show that you did not act inappropriately.
Instead, you got defensive and attacked everyone who brought this to your attention. Now, while I understand reacting in anger to people (it’s a fault of mine that I continually try and work on), this certainly did nothing to make anyone here who is accusing you any less satisfied with their conclusion.
Over on the LBMB, I found that many Christians tried to “never post in anger,” and I’d wager that Trisk and Poly - two Christians I admire on this board - also live by that rule of thumb.
My humble conclusion - and please take this as advice, not criticism - is that you might want to rethink what you have said and the anger in which you posted and think if there is anything you wrote which conflicts with your religious thoughts.
Then, either apologize because you made a mistake (I don’t know anyone on this board who would not let it go with that) or in a rational and clear manner defend yourself.
See, this is the advantage of not labelling yourself to be of a specific churchor theology: Nobody is going to tell ME that I am out of line… 
Yer pal,
Satan
I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Three months, two weeks, three days, 18 hours, 11 minutes and 48 seconds.
4350 cigarettes not smoked, saving $543.79.
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Yes, phil, how could I forget. And I don’t think I objected to that, even though that wasn’t really my point. But of course, there’s that ol 3-digit post count clouding my brain again. And NO, I won’t count “Mom” as a naughty name - nice one! And yes, you have been a tanned, rested, and ready 90% profanity-free phil lately. 
So now is it time? I mean really, letting an active thread drop is fine and all that, I respect that. But not even telling the other parties that you are doing it is fucking rude and below you. I may have that ol’ 3-digit post count, but I’ve been posting to boards for more than a decade. There is some Nettiquette (sp) involved. And I generally don’t e-mail people directly about board issues - I didn’t know if this would be considered another case of “harassment”.
I read this thread. You started with the names, as silly as you may think they are. That is a fact, albeit minor.
If it’s any consolation from a 3-digit poster, I still really honestly do think you’re an intelligent, good, passionate guy who I just disagree with sometimes.
It almost seems like you are setting an impossibly high standard for most Christians. I know you referred to others on the board who you gave as good examples of their faith. But this board is not real life, and I wonder how many people in real life can meet your standard of “Christian”. I know I would have a lot of trouble. I did mention the repenting and regretting aspects as well.
I, uh, wasn’t doing anything “to” her. Well you’ve helped make my own point phil, which was whether or not Jodi wanted to describe you as such you obviously are NOT filled with hate, so it would be wrong of her to categorize you as such.
Did I miss the part where you told us that you live with Sneevil and know what goes on in his life? Because, silly me, I missed that. Or, just in case I didn’t, please explain why it is acceptable for you to take issue in the strongest terms with what he says but we are not allowed to take issue with what you say because “we don’t know you well enough.” I’m betting we know you just as well as you know him. Nobody has to have the inside track to another poster’s personal life in order to respond to his or her post.
ANTHRACITE says:
Or, sometimes, neither repent nor regret, though they are aware they are supposed to. Which is fine; the problem is that if you are not acting Christian in a particular context and someone points that out, it’s very difficult to try to say your are. 'Cause you ain’t. Again, I’m not judging Pepper or her crispy little rant; I’m just saying Phil is not out of line to note a conflict between what she said and what she professes to believe.
PHIL says:
Jodi doesn’t think you’re an asshole. Jodi thinks you can be a world-class asshole at times. Jodi doesn’t think you’d really disagree with this. Jodi doesn’t know why she’s talking in the third person. Jodi will stop.
Actually, to quibble, you apologized “to anyone who might have been offended” by you calling me that. But since I certainly was, I took that to include me.
POLY – At the risk of starting a religious debate: Do you believe that Jesus’s remarks justify other people, who do not have his divinity, in judging their fellow men in the harsh terms with which he judged the Pharisee? Do you think that a person is acting in a defensibly “Christian” way when she (or he) tells someone else that they don’t deserve to live and should be killed? I’m truly interested in your response.
It should be noted – again – that the question of whether Pepper is being “Christian” in this particular context is in no way related to her ‘right’ to post whatever she wants, nor is it in anyway related to the religion she happens to practice.
Incidentally, I don’t want anyone to think I said this to PLG because I’m trying to be mean to her. (And, yes, I was sarcastic in my initial post. That’s just my thing.) As I said, I have learned something on the board from a lot of the Christians, and although I falter (and remain a staunch atheist), I strive to act better, and hope others would do the same. Maybe it’s presumptuous of me to presume it’s my place to prod others to do so, but if I can’t at least try to improve things, what good am I?
Earlier this week, I absolutely went apeshit on Myndephuqer in another Pit thread. I mean, I went nuts, way outside the line, worse than anything I’ve ever said to Jodi or anyone else. And the next morning, I posted an apology, because I realized I had gone too far, and I felt badly about it. Far as I know, he hasn’t seen it, but I felt better for having made it.
From Libertarian’s Book of God Quotes??
Is that available at amazon.com?
Pepperlandgirl
Excellent rant. I have no idea whether it lived up to your personal standards of faith. Frankly, I don’t really care. That’s between you and your conscience. Until I see you lecturing others on mercy and turning the other cheek I will not call you a hypocrite.
On the other hand, the OP does not give me the impression of a person whose faith is particularly deep or admirably conveyed through action. That, of course, has more to do with my own expectations of faith than your internal spirituality. If you were seeking to create a favorable impression for your faith, then you failed (at least with me).
If you were concerned only with lambasting the Sniveling One, though, you did a fine job. Bravo. I won’t go to church with you, but you have an open invitation to my next weenie roast.
Phil
I appreciate your position as well. However, what you call hypocrisy I see only as irony. People never live wholly up to their beliefs. It is often easier to see this with people of faith, and religions which offer absolute dictums of morality make their followers particularly conspicuous in this regard, but the trait is universal.
Yes, the OP was a particularly hot pile of irony. Some allowances need to be made for context. After all, we expect religious folks to play by the rules and restrict their prostelytizing to the appropriate forum. Shouldn’t we then also extend the lattitude for them to express themselves colorfully in this forum?
Satan, you have valid points. Thank you for your imput.
Here is the reason I don’t view myself as a hypocrite.
I do label myself as a Mormon, but many people label themselves as various religions, but don’t live it. I am what is known as a Jack-Mormon.I believe in the tenets, but I don’t necessarily live them. Case in point, I have pre-marital relations with my BF on a nightly basis.For the most part, I have a live and let live attitude. I don’t care who or what you worship, as long as you don’t cram it down my throat. However, I did react in anger with sarcasm directed towards various posters, especially Phil. That was not a good idea, or called for. But I do not apologize for my OP.
Polycarp, thank you. I don’t mind what you believe the Mormon Church to be, because that is your right. But you have enough respect for people to refrain from making derogatory comments, and I appreciate that.
This is the first full rant I have ever directed towards somebody, and I proud of it. It was good. One day, I hope to be as good at it as Satan, Coldfire, or Weirddave, and I’m not going to apologize for writing it. I feel it was justified, and no worse from most the Pit fare.
I’d like for this whole thing to end now, well, between Phil and myself. Obviously, he is never going to change his idea about me, and I am never going to agree with him. Though I do apologize for the sarcastic posts directed specifically towards him.
I personally feel both Phil and Jodi took the rant far too seriously. Is this the first time you ever saw one poster flame a fellow poster? I’m not advocating anybody’s death. I doubt he is a literal douchebag. And I’m sure he has more than two brain cells, even though he doesn’t use them all.
OK, you’ve explained it in a much better way. I understand.
But he should have at least sucked it down and apologized to you directly. “OK, I’m officially apoligizing to everyone now!” isn’t very polite.
Oh my God! I just noticed the Blackadder quote! That is so cool - I miss that show. I wish PBS would start showing it again here. 
Ok, here’s my take. A good Christian is not someone who always adheres to all of the rules. A good Christian is someone who tries. No one can exactly follow Christ except for Christ himself. Jesus is the son of God or God incarnate (supposedly), so that would mean he isn’t exactly human. Therefore, you can’t expect a human to always do what Jesus would do. You can only expect them to try. Hell, I think everyone would be better if they acted like Jesus. But that ain’t gonna happen.
I think Pepper’s got something going on in her life right now, because I’ve seen her get really pissy lately. And to her credit, most of the time she’s a real sweetheart, despite what Phil thinks. So this isn’t exactly behavior that’s characteristic of her. At least, not from what I’ve seen.
That said:
pldennison, just because I say mean things sometimes, it doesn’t mean I’m not nice. And just because I sometimes piss sitting down, it doesn’t mean I’m not a man. Everyone’s a hypocrite. Everyone’s human. Get over it.
On further consideration, PLG, I do apologize for saying you are “all about hate.” That was way too much, and beyond the scope of what I was trying to say. I do have a tendency to get caught up in the moment. I’m sorry.
What the - ? If we can’t make sweeping, baseless generalizations and assumptions about people on message boards, who can we make sweeping, baseless generalizations and assumptions about?
…so, just where IS Snivel in response to all this anyway? Just wonderin’.
As do I phil. As do I.
If you are strong enough to apologize, then I will be too.
I apologize for bringing up the other thread and my anger from that. It was not helpful to the issue at hand. I merely felt slighted, that I was not worthy enough of a direct notice from you that “hey, I have to go now, I can’t post to this anymore”. Whatever. It’s past.
I will not be posting to this thread again unless asked to - I will leave well enough alone.
poohpah chalupa? My God, now that’s a “disturbing” name! Like I needed another reason to avoid Taco Hell. Shhese!
If God is supposedly omniscient don’t you think that implies He knows the meaning of the word “hyperbole”?
Pitiquette prevents me from posting a smiley with that, but seriously, do you mean that a Christian is supposed to act like some sort of serene zombie? Actually desiring somebody’s death would violate most people’s idea of Christianity, but does anybody here really believe that was the intent of the OP?
I go away, come back and it’s one big group hug…great
mmmm…
great, but eff you all for conveniently skipping over my name…
pepperlandgirl: Allow me to make a suggestion to you then.
I am totally in favor of you being exactly what you want to be. I may not like it (I mention that as a disclaimer to those who I in fact to not like; in reality, I do like you), but you can act any way you wish.
Now, your posting is essentially you saying, “I am a Mormon, but I am not THAT into it.” This is quite cool, really. I know people who go to church every weekend who still curse. I know people who love Jesus, but who still act in ways which would make a devout Babtist cringe. And not because they are beating themselves up over not being perfect, but because they are fine with themselves the way they are.
This is quite okay.
However, when you post your religious beliefs as frequently as you have, people ARE going to hold you to that higher standard because, presumably, you hold yourself there since that is one of the working descriptions of someone who is devout!
An example: My brother is a youth pastor. He does not curse. People who go to his church probably curse from time to time. They probably drink too. And they wouldn’t look upon the guy in the pew next to them as “bad” for doingthe same things.
But if MY BROTHER - a person in his position - were to be overheard at a local tavern where he was drinking one evening cursing at the TV as his favorite sports team did something horible, well, that doesn’t look very good on him.
Now, you come in here wearing your religion and your religiousity (is that even a word?!?) on your sleeve, people will look at you as someone who feels that their religion IS important to them, and as such, they will see you as someone who should act a certain way.
So forgive people if they expected a certain thing out of you and you didn’t give it to them. What happened is they were set up to believe something about you that wasn’t the case, and it made them wonder wha6t was up.
Thanks to your last post, I think we all know what’s up with you and we know you better and less of this might happen with you. Communication rules, mission accomplished!
Yer pal,
Satan
I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Three months, two weeks, three days, 19 hours, 25 minutes and 21 seconds.
4352 cigarettes not smoked, saving $544.05.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 40 minutes.