Catch a couple punches in the face if it’s not too much trouble. They never think the ugly guy’s gay
I don’t think a gay man would drive a car with that name. Now, it’d be HUGE with lesbians…
Wow, I was a lesbian for four years and I didn’t know it!
Me too!
Start an all company e-mail newsletter. Include everything you don’t know about your detractors, see how they like it.
Thumb rings are in bad taste whether you’re gay or straight.
It shocks me that people can read Lord of the Rings and rationalize away the obviously gay relationship between Frodo and Sam. I dunno whether people are just threatened by a story having a gay hero, or they’re just concrete enough in their thinking that they can’t pick up on clear subtext. It’s blindingly obvious to me, though, that they were gay. Why the hell shouldn’t they be? Granted, the book didn’t more than hint at sex amongst any of the characters (one of the ways in which it differs from real mythology . . . ) but it couldn’t have been more apparent. Somehow, though, the idea of gay people “cheapens” it for a lot of folks, or so they say. The notion of hetero relationships - including the ones explicit in the book - miraculously does not.
Again, why is it such a shock that classic literature might contain gay people? Heck, some of it was probably even written by gay people. At some places and times, it might have been necessary to use subtler references to refer to gay relationships; understanding classic literature is not like reading comic books. It requires thought and analysis. Thus, in some cases we probably can’t establish with certainty the author’s intent. But it seems to me a much more fantastical claim to say that classic literature is entirely queer-free.
“But that’s just how men talked in those days!”
sigh Excalibre , I’m not saying I don’t think there are gay people in classic literature. I am familiar with authors such as Oscar Wilde, and would not doubt that they, or even straight authors, wrote stories with gay characters.
My point was about how many people, trends, stories and other things, just because they don’t conform to the modern American macho image, are interpreted as being gay, and that it bothers me.
As for LotR, Sam and Frodo are most definitely NOT gay, since, well… (and this is IN the books, mind you) at the beginning Sam has a crush on a girl in town (Rose Cotton), at the end he’s married her, and they wind up having kids (that’s not an invention of the movies). I can’t find my copy of the Fellowship currently, but here’s a few quotes from the Grey Havens in RotK:
“And so it was settled. Sam Gamgee married Rose Cotton in the Spring of 1420…”
“And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap.”
Discretion as opposed to coming right out and saying it is one thing, but I think, especially in the case of Tolkien, that it’s a little much to say he would write a (subtly disguised) gay romance and then turn around and have one of the participants marry (a woman) and have children, and try to pass it off as a happy ending.
Because he wanted to be a good servant, and wanted to move into his master’s home to more readily take care of his Master and the Manse (as servants normally did in traditional societies around the world), Sam’s gay? Just because Sam and Frodo were close friends, who grew even closer during crisis, and because Sam always stood by Frodo and was a crucial support for him in his darkest times, they’re gay? Haven’t you ever heard of the bonds of brotherhood Policemen, Firemen, and Soldiers often develop?
This is exactly the kind of stuff I’m talking about. Just because people from different times or cultures felt it was acceptable for men to show tenderness to one another doesn’t make those people, or what they write about gay. And yet, every story that doesn’t conform to our current definition of masculinity has to be cast as being about gays.
People who do this are no different from the gossip-mongers in QuickSilver’s office.
And for the record, part of what I liked most about LotR is that you have a GREAT story that hardly focuses on any kind of romance at all!
Lets face it, love stories are an integral part of almost all great works, and it always seemed like a real feat for such a lengthy, grand story to give such miniscule focus to romance whatsoever. Even the great potential inherent in the Arwen-Aragorn-Eowyn triangle, which was played up in the films, was barely touched upon.
If Tolkien wanted to write about Sam and Frodo as a couple, it probably would’ve been a great story. But. He. Didn’t. And don’t start on Gimli and Legolas just because you’re wrong about Sam and Frodo. 
I’ve consulted my magic 8 ball and it said definately not gay.
But what I’m hearing you all say is… lose the thumb ring. Yes? :dubious:
…i’ve enjoyed being your amusement fodder.
I’m thinking this is just some Hobbit-guy equivalent of “lesbian until graduation.” (“Gay until the Quest is over”? “What happens on the Quest, stays on the Quest”? Whaddaya think?)
So Sam was bisexual.
Seriously, when I get a chance I’ll paw through my copy and find the particularly strong quotes . . .
For a better explanation, see http://gwaddiction.com/yaoi1.shtml . Here, however, are my thoughts on the matter.
H3Knuckles, I am one of those people. I see homosexual subtext every where I go. Why? Well, for starters, you concept that “everything intellectual like, etc.” is deeply flawed, since that claims there can possibly be no gay intellectuals. Secondly, here are some specific reasons. First off Relena, of Gundam Wing is a whiny little bitch. However, since she is the main female, and Heero is the main man, it is expected they will be linked romantically. Boooooring! However, the creator put in hints that their might be a romantic subplot between him and other males. He said straight out that you should perceive the series the way you want to, re: that question. Hew knew that many people, like me would look for hints, and so left some. Secondly, X and Zero, as portrayed in promotional picture, are bishonen (Pretty boys), the body and facile type seen often in girl’s comics, so no surprise there. Oh, and about LOTR, according to a friend of mine, due to the author’s experiences in wartime, Frodo and Sam have a very close relationship, one resembling that of soldiers in foxholes, trying to survive. Depending on another man to save your life creates a relationship almost indistinguishable from that of a homosexual one, so it should be surprise that people read it as one. I could go on and on, but the fact of it is that there are many different reasons to read a gay subtext into a peace of fiction, and that it isn’t just BS.
Ahem… pardon the interruption… but, ummm, this thread is about
ME!
…dammit…
It’s one thing when coworkers think you’re gay based on extended observation.
It’s another thing when total strangers think you’re gay at first glance.
Happened to my brother-in-law and I several years ago. Picture this: two guys (admittedly both wearing too much leather) looking at knicknacks at a mall kiosk. My B-i-L asked the price for personalizing a piece with two names and the old biddy looked at us through her reading glasses and said “we do same sex couples”.
Our expressions: :eek:
I mean really now, we don’t speak with a lisp and we didn’t sashay up to her. I guess the concept of two straight guys shopping was a bit much for her.
If there was a guy in my office who didn’t talk about sports AND wore a thumb ring AND smelled good AND dressed well, I’d assume he was gay.
The sports thing is the least of them all. There are guys here who don’t talk about sports, but there are none who smell good, dress well, or wear thumb rings.
Two male co-workers have concluded separately that I am a lesbian because:
I had no interest in them personally.
My sister is a lesbian.
One got so obnoxious I had to report him. :wally
Hmm… I’m straight, male, and I also wear a thumb ring. I say go for it. What other finger would I put a ring on? Or is it supposed to be no ring at all?
Hmmm…
- Smells good. Check (a woman at work once said she liked to ride the elevator with me because I always smelled nice).
- Dresses nicely. Check.
- Doesn’t talk about sports. Hmmm…not too much. I’d rather play tennis than watch anything, but I do like to go to baseball games. The beer is cold, the field is green, and the uniforms are usually tight in all the right places (Uh oh…)
- Wears a thumb ring. You must be joking.
I’ll get back to you.