Best piece of advice yet.
Ouch. Well, in high school I looked like I was 12 (and this was senior year). Plus I went to one of those schools where the wealthier, more popular kids dictated who did and didn’t have a social life. The only other group that threw parties were the stoners, and I had no real desire to be one of them let alone hang around them.
Since high school, I’ve started to age in the looks department a little bit. I haven’t been carded for an R rated movie since seeing There Will Be Blood (I’m 23 currently, BTW).
Every girl I’ve made acquaintences with over the last 5 years instantly relegated me to little brother status (even though I’m older than most of them) or view me as a eunuch. And one of my best friends is the president of her sorority, so it’s not like I haven’t been introduced to women. Even the shy ones who I think would be a good match are involved in long term relationships.
I’ve gone to a few parties thrown by friends with the promise that their “cute single friends” will be there, only to meet said friends with their boyfriends in tow.
My sophomore year of college there was one girl in particular who I hung out with almost on a daily basis. We had gone to high school together, though we were not formally introduced until freshman year of college. We lived in the same dorm sophomore year, liked the same music (which is a HUGE thing for me, I don’t know any other girls who share my taste in music), the same movies, the same tv shows, and while we’re still friends, we only see each other on the rarest occasions to catch up, since neither of us live on campus anymore. In every way she would be the perfect girl for me…except for the pesky 6 years and counting relationship she’s in.
I’ve had one girlfriend, when I was 17 and she was 15. We were basically thrown in a room together by our friends (who were dating at the time) and not allowed out until we kissed. Needless to say that didn’t last long, though we did hook up once again when I was 20, though I didn’t go all the way with her because I didn’t want to be a rebound and she had just broken up with her long term on-again-off-again boyfriend. Plus she had a crush on my best friend, so I guess she was just willing to settle for any dick that night. 
She said she thought my social awkwardness was cute, but I’m not sure how I could market that to women looking for a guy and not a boy.
I’m told that facial hair might make me look older, but unfortunately these cheeks are barren, with the exception of the sporatic hairs that make me look like a pubescent kid who hasn’t yet realized that now might be a good time to take up shaving.
A girl did flirt with me at work a few months ago, but I noticed she had a red nametag (red is for people who are 15 years old). When she asked me what high school I went to, I had to tell her I was a junior…in college.
So I guess I could just wait a few years til the girls who WOULD be attracted to me are of legal consenting age.
Others have commented on this already, but I’ll just throw my two cents in the pile.
I’m not a drinker. I don’t drink alcohol nor do I want to. I’m also not a big party person. I can do small parties where I know everybody, but big frat parties or the club scene just don’t do it for me. (I happen to have a slight phobia/discomfort in crowded places to begin with.) I did go to two frat parties my freshman year of college because I did want to try to be more social. The problem? I wasn’t enjoying myself. If I had wanted to meet women there, I would have given them a horrible impression because I wasn’t having fun. And quite frankly, chances are the type of women I’d want to be dating I wouldn’t meet at those types of parties anyway…why? Because I don’t like the parties to begin with and I wouldn’t want to keep coming back to the parties with her.
So yes, I did spend most of my college weekends hanging out with a small group of guys/gals that were close friends and also not interested in the party scene because that’s just how I’m wired. I wasn’t object to meeting new people. But there wasn’t anything “wrong” with me or my way to attract women. I met several women online through things that I enjoyed doing and was having fun with. Several of them developed a crush on me because I met them through an activity that I enjoyed so they saw my true personality through talking with me online, instead of the personality they would have caught me with at a random party. One of the women I met ended up being my girlfriend for my entire senior year of college and then some.
Just because you haven’t had good success in attracting people in person doesn’t mean you won’t be able to attract people online. They’re two completely different mediums and just like many other situations, some people are more suited for one way than another.
This is a really good point, too. Going out of your element to find a date or SO pretty much ensures y’all won’t have much in common. I’m a heavy online gamer, and the last thing I want to do is hook up with someone who doesn’t ‘get’ MMOs.
I predict you WILL indeed do better with ladies as you get older - not because of anything to do with your looks, but just because older women are going to appreciate what you’re offering more.
In the late teens and early 20s, the dating scene favors women. Everyone wants to bang the hot 18 year old chick. Plus, at that age, most gals are not thinking about anything serious or long term, just about having fun, so the “bad boys” who offer short-term excitement look pretty good compared to the sweet, “like a brother” sort of guy like you.
The tables turn as you get older, though. As women age, the pool of eligible bachelors for them shrinks (since men their own age are still trying to compete for the aforementioned young hotties, in addition to the demographic tendency of men to die off at a higher rate than women do as the population ages).
At the same time, just through the process of maturing as people, women tend to value different qualities in guys. Over the next few years, girls your own age will start to learn their lesson from getting mistreated by the “bad boys” and start to finally appreciate the value of guys like you more.
Basically: Bad boys are who girls want to date, but you’re the kind of guy girls want to marry (speaking generally here, of course). So I think you’ll do better with girls as your generation moves towards the marriage scene instead of the dating scene.
Oh, and: If you are willing to consider dating single moms, the world will be your oyster as you get into your late 20s and early 30s, because the girls who made the mistake of marrying their bad boy will be getting divorced then and a little desperate to find someone stable and kind-hearted to raise their kids with.
In the meantime, there’s no harm in giving online dating a try and seeing how it goes. 
If you sign up with the free sites like OkCupid I don’t think you have anything to lose.
(Incidentally, I ended up hooking up with one of my long-term male friends after several years of Just Friends. So far it has been THE best relationship I’ve ever had…so keep meeting other girls, but don’t give up totally on something happening with one of your ‘buddies’ somewhere down the road 
)
The biggest benefit to online dating is that you get to learn a bit about a person before you go out with them. If you need a woman who enjoys reading, playstation, and foreign films who has at least a bachelor’s degree* you can state that in your ad and screen women by that criteria. It also allows the women to screen you and get to know something about you, so that they know ahead of time that you are 23 and not 16, etc.
*If this is what you are looking for I am available and I prefer men without facial hair 
I’m sorry, but the more I read this post, am I wrong in thinking that it just paints such a…bleak picture? The pool of eligible bachelors start to shrink, so out of desperation they seek out the kind of guys (me) that they wouldn’t have given the time of day for the last decade? Fuck them (not literally).
Edit: Bad boys are who girls want to fuck, but you’re the kind of guy girls want to settle for after they’ve played the field and had their fun.
I remember a post by ReubenH a few months back (maybe more than a year) that was about this very issue, plus the next one I address:
Again, I’m the “dependable type” that a woman can settle for after her “dream life” turns to shit?
Maybe I would consider dating single mothers down the road, so long as they’re willing to bear my children. But if she’s coming into the relationship with no intention of having more kids…sorry, I’m not going to support some other man’s kids if I don’t get to have any of my own.
I know that people mature all through their 20s, and that women’s tastes in men change over the years, but I’ve met plenty of women my age who are already mature enough to know better than to waste years with the wrong kind of guy. I just need to find one of those girls who is actually single.
lavenderviolet is only tellin’ it like it is.
if you want some perspective on this, try being my age (female, 51, soon to be 52) and being out on the dating circuit. i don’t do the party animal stuff, i’m in bars only to have a drink and a chat with friends. my days of the meat/meet market are long over with, and quite frankly, i didn’t do much of that even when i *was * 21.
like it or not, the guys my age are indeed chasing the 18-year-old hotties and the girls your age are chasing the bad boys. not all, of course. there are men *and * women with taste and discretion still out there.
go for it. try the online dating thing. you have nothing to lose indeed, except a little time and effort. i met the divemaster on yahoopersonals, which worked out pretty well. i had several good dates from there. i also did match.com with similar results. i’ve kept my okcupid too just for giggles, although it’s not good for much more than wasting time as previously mentioned up-thread. 
**mahna mahna ** is quite right, though; you get what you pay for.
you’re 23, soon to be post college. get out of the college mentality - and the sooner the better. you’re about to take on the real world. this means job interviews, etc., and eventually, exposure to a lot of people who couldn’t care less about the next class or fraternity party or whether or not they’re going to make the dean’s list this semester. all that is SO over.
if you decide to do the online thing, approach it much like you would for a job interview. after all, it is a resume of yourself you’re putting out there, right? so, with that in mind, here are a couple of tips from an old broad who’s done the online dating thing. just remember that these are from my perspective, bearing in mind i’m 30 years older than you are, so take them for they’re worth. other folks will be along to add even more suggestions.
so, here we go.
in no particular order…
don’t leave the profile blank. we girls see that, we’re going to motor right on by without bothering to check you out because you obviously can’t be bothered to make an effort.
first impressions are the most important. silly-sounding cliche that is so very true!
spend some time working out what you want to say **before ** you actually post something on line. oh, and you’re probably not going to finish it all in one night. you’re foolish if you do. take your time. write it out. look it over. check spelling. did i mention check the spelling? if you’re not sure about a word, look it up. yes, it matters. and then after all that, rewrite your profile. you’ll be amazed at what you’ll want to change.
all of these online profiles run pretty much the same: you’re selling yourself. if you’re really stuck, go read what other guys have written about themselves. yeah, it sounds weird, but it does help. i did that with the girls when i first started online dating. i didn’t have a clue what i was doing. don’t copy their stuff down, word for word, but use some of it as a launching pad for yourself.
be honest. if you’re 5’ 6” and you list yourself as 6 feet tall, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot. leave off rhapsodizing about your latest on-line gaming adventure other than to list it among your hobbies. if you go into excruciating detail about world of warcraft or whatever the flavor of the moment is these days, we’re going to yawn and probably move on. as a rule, girls aren’t much into gaming. yes, there are always exceptions to that rule, but don’t hold your breath.
an online photo is a must. the ratio of hits is way higher for guys with pictures. if you don’t have a digital camera, etc. to get a photo, figure out a way to make it happen. someone you know, the library, a camera shop, passport picture, whatever works.
do not submit a picture of yourself wearing a baseball cap, a cowboy hat, any kind of hat, and sunglasses !!!
if i had a nickel for every on-line picture i’ve seen of guys of all ages in glasses and hats/caps i’d rival the donald himself for the big bucks. hello… we want to see your FACE! we don’t care that you love the yankees or the colts or whatever and we don’t care about your cool pair of finster glints.
lose 'em both.
look presentable in that picture. need a haircut? get it. face fuzz not all that? either get it professionally tended to or lose it. you’re gonna have to spruce up for the job interviewing process anyway, aren’t you? might as well get started now.
body piercings? to each his own, but tone them down. wearing your nose ring on a first date is probably not the best idea, unless she’s already aware you have one, or she’s into piercings too.
tattoos? no biggie, just come clean about them. to a point. they’re way more acceptable than they were 20 years ago, but you also don’t need to broadcast to the entire internet that you have a union jack tattoo on your… uh, whatever.
my one and only is a little rose tattoo on my left ankle. i always put that tidbit in my profile so that guy X isn’t going to have a potentially unpleasant surprise when he gets a look at my ankle and sees it. if he’s disapproving of tattoos in the first place, all that’s gonna do is make him wonder what else i haven’t told him about. the divemaster doesn’t like tattoos, but because i was up front about it from the very beginning, he’s learned to live with it.
so sayeth the queen. i’m now done. hope some of this at least, is helpful to you.
Despite every person and sign indicating the opposite, your situation isn’t all that rare (and I say that as someone with a very close friend who’s a professional sex columnist with lots of 20-something readers). You’d be surprised how many people leave college with their virginity intact and soon go on to have satisfying sex partners and long-term relationships.
It’s complete horseshit, if that makes you feel any better. It’s a line told by two groups of self-deluded people; women justifying bad relationship choices, and losers who think they can’t get dates because they’re “too nice.”
Mmmm…no. Many will actually raise the bar because they figured at this point, they deserve Mr Perfect.
A general rule is that women tend to place a greater emphasis on a man’s success while men just want to bang a hot piece of ass. Problem is that while we tend to get more successful over time, women don’t tend to get prettier and thinner.
Also, here’s a little secret. NOBODY likes the bar scene. There’s just something horribly depressing about a room full of drunks trying to couple off before last call only to wake up the next morning next to some skank or douchebag. Have you ever heard anyone tell about how they met their true love at Jello tequilla shot night at McSorley’s?
But, alas, that is one of the few places on a Friday or Saturday night where large numbers of single people looking to meet someone tend to congregate.
What the hell? Uh, no. Someone’s priorities changing as they get older is not equivalent to “settling for crap because they can’t have what they actually want”, it’s about ACTUALLY WANTING something DIFFERENT because you’re aren’t the same person you were at twenty and what looked good then looks boring as hell now.
Not that I’m fond of the whole ‘hot young girls like bad boys! Grown-up women like reliable fluffy guys!’ thing anyway, I think it’s pretty much a myth, but just saying; even if you do meet a woman who was into the whole hawt-bad-guys thing when she was younger but isn’t anymore, it doesn’t mean she’s reluctantly settling for someone, anyone, just so she can have a man. It probably means she… isn’t into that thing anymore.
While I would agree that it doesn’t mean she’s “settling for crap,” this does kind of sound like because she is now older she’s not into the fun wild sex anymore [with the hawt bad boys] and now wants the nice stable guy [quite possibly the grown up nerd who she didn’t give the time of day to when she was twenty, as Soapbox said]. No?
Call it a fragile male ego, but if this is the case I can see how it’s not the best feeling in the world for the second guy. Even if she does explain it by saying, “I made poor decisions when I was young and stupid, you should be flattered that I think of you as the better man now.” I think at a primal level, a lot of guys want to have been that first guy who she was young and wild with.
Well, if it’s “but but hey, I want my fun wild youthful sex”, that’s one thing; I can understand that, the way you put it. Suggesting that any woman who ever changes her taste in partners is obviously settling for something she doesn’t really want, not so much.
But can’t the seemingly unwild nerdy guy also be a demon in the sack when properly unleashed? That’s something to think about.
ETA: To clarify, it’s often easier to be wilder and more out there with someone you’re a bit more comfortable with.
I guess the concern is that, if I (or any hypothetical guy who simply doesn’t have luck with women) end up finally getting with someone in my late 20s/early 30s, someone who had a particularly wild past, but aren’t willing to be wild or particularly adventurous in bed, it would be a deal breaker. Now if she’s someone who never had a very wild past it would be different, but if the girls attitude is “been there, done that, didn’t really like that* too much, so even though this is your first sexual relationship and you’d like to try it, that’s too bad because I wouldn’t want to try it again, sorry” then that would be a deal breaker for me.
Why should I have to settle for some girl who used to be open and adventerous but is looking for something more “tame” now. I’m not saying that there are very many women like this, or even any at all, but it’s something I’d be concerned about if I’m supposed to just sit tight and wait for the women my age to “mature and realize what they’re missing out on with a guy like me.”
I don’t want to be anyone’s safe, secure, backup guy. Through all my bitterness over these past few years, I’ve remained a hopeless (perhaps too hopeless) romantic, and would rather wait for a girl who’s passionate about me, and not just deciding “eh, sure I’ll give him a shot since I’ve got nothing better to do.”
*insert sex act or position or whatever of your choice
Don’t settle.
You have a lot of good things going for you, and you have a lot to offer. Key is to find someone who is looking for these things.
From personal experience, I understand about your use of the term “bitterness.” You just have to let that one go, no matter how justified.
Don’t ask why chicks are attracted to losers. I don’t think there’s an answer to that. But as one of the Kennedys said (I think), “Living well is the best revenge.”
Don’t be desperate, don’t be distant, and don’t give up. Best wishes, I do understand where you’re coming from, I’ve been pretty much exactly there myself…(and yet now I am married for 32+ years and all those other guys and gals are his-to-ry)
Been there Soapbox. It’s a tough position, I know. I was in the same boat for a long while (made no more easier by a roommate in college that got more ass than a toilet seat).
The problem isn’t that you can’t attract anyone, it’s that you see your inability to attract a mate as a referendum on yourself. “I can’t seem to attract anybody like everyone else can, what is wrong with me then?” “I went all that time and haven’t gotten laid yet?”
Then this is when you turn around and get defensive. “No! I’m just fine! It’s THEM making the stupid decisions!” You then feel a false moral superiority over those who have taken different paths, which can be an awful turn off.
The solution is not to get a girlfriend, but it’s get rid of the stupid idea that your relationship status defines you. Believe me, I’ve seen some PATHETIC FUCKING PEOPLE in relationships. Said roommate eventually lost favor and would actually CRY if he wasn’t getting any. I know people that hide THOUSANDS from their spouse because she doesn’t trust him/her enough to not steal it from them. A relationship is no guarantee of happiness. In fact from what I’ve seen, <bitterness>it’s hurt significantly more people than it’s helped</bitterness>.
Just because you don’t have a GF, or are still a virgin doesn’t mean nobody likes having you around. Yes, the nights can occasionally be lonely, but at least you don’t have to share the fucking covers for the other ones.
I’d stay stop investing your time into trying to get into a relationship. Invest it in your friends, hobby, whatever. Invest it in your future job. Move up the ladder. Work overtime. Get promoted and make more money. You could have a nice car, be living in your own home (not apartment), within a couple years. Now all of a sudden this “mature 24 year old homeowner with a nice car” could be looking not to shabby to some of these girls you thought you passed up.
…at least that’s what I keep telling myself. :smack:
I think that the problem is that you are bitter and feel if you get with someone who was wilder when she was younger that you would be settling.
I think that until you let go of your bitterness you will be alone. It isn’t an attractive feature in anyone. In short, you need to just mellow out. If you meet a girl who you are attracted to and who seems to be attracted to you, go for it. Don’t waste time thinking about whether she has a crush on someone else, just go for it already.
Women are a lot more like guys than you realize. Oftentimes, they just want a piece of ass as well. I think that by being a hopeless romantic, you are taking something that should be very simple and overly complicating it.
Everyone has something to offer someone. You just need to figure out what it is you bring to the table and get rid of the stuff that doesn’t work.
OK, you’re waaaay too much up in your head about all this. Understandable, since you’ve been on the sidelines for so long, but it’s not going to help you. Why are you getting jealous/anxious over the sexual past and current sexual proclivities of a girlfriend you don’t have?
You need to relax.
I remember some of your early dating threads, and it seems to me that you’re having the same problem now that you had then. You’re getting all freaked out about being with someone with more experience, and suspicious of their motives for even wanting to be with you. You really, really have to stop doing that. No one is going to want to get involved with the bitter, judgmental guy. None of the excellent qualities you have will matter a whit if you freak people out from the get-go.
Here’s what you need:
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Be comfortable with who you are and with your current situation. Being happy with yourself and your life is attractive.
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Be a fun person to be around. If you’re always full of good ideas of things to do or up for whatever other people want to do, people will want to be around you. That’s attractive.
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Be confident in asking people out. You’re not asking them to marry you, just to get some food/coffee or do activity X. You’re an interesting, fun guy who is looking for new people to do fun things with. If they say no, no big deal.
Here’s what you don’t need:
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Anxiety or desperation: don’t make every interaction with a female a magical success vs. crushing failure situation. Don’t bring up things you’re insecure about, like how young you look or your dating inexperience.
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Bitterness or jealousy: this will repel women more effectively than a fire extinguisher full of mace (which is also very effective). Don’t talk about how people wouldn’t date you, or the popular kids didn’t invite you to parties, or ask questions about ex-boyfriends. If someone comments on a sensitive topic, like your age, shrug it off with a joke and a smile.
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Overcompensation: don’t try for the most romantic first date ever. Save the hard-core romantic overtures for once you’re in a relationship. Play early interactions cool.
OK, this ended up being long. Anyway, focus on yourself for now. Get an exercise routine going, maybe lift some weights, to build up your confidence. Get a cool overpriced haircut and maybe some nice clothes for going out. Practice talking to strangers, just to hone your conversational skills.
If you can let the past go, you can be very successful. If you can’t, it doesn’t matter where you’re trying to find a date, like msmith537 said.