Socializing with an adulterer

In My Humble Opinion
21

Scumpup, this is just MHO, but there really isn’t a whole lot that can justify lying for two years and meaning to keep on lying about it. Was she a nag around the house or a bit frigid in the bed? Did he feel taken advantage of or tied down? Maybe he just didn’t like the cooking.

After two years of cheating without a divorce in sight, those “reasons” turn into excuses. If things were so bad that he had to go to someone else, he should’ve filed for a divorce first instead of sneaking around behind her back with another woman and having a divorce thrust upon him because he got caught.

Queen Tonya, C3 wasn’t asking about setting the standards for her peer group nor was I advocating doing so. I just felt the need to remind those in this thread that this was not a one time fling with the wife carrying a grudge over a slip up.

22

Okay, Harborwolf, did he have this outside relationship because , even though his home life was idyllic, he just wanted to be an evil scumbag?

23

Ok, not setting standards, helping them out of their mistakes and being careful not to send a signal the relationship is legit and socially acceptable.

It’s up to us to steer our friends back to the straight and narrow, that’s not about setting some sort of standard for the group?

This is being presented as an either/or situation, either you accept everything without question no matter how wrong you think it is, or you vote him off the island.

What point is there in saying “You’re still my friend but I’m not going to get over the wrongness of what you did” as opposed to either accepting him warts and all or ending the relationship now that you no longer like or respect him?

24

Of course there are two sides to the story, and more than two. No one, including the couple involved, will ever know exactly what happened or why. To say that his side is irrelevant is the height of closed-mindedness. What we’ve heard here apparently came from the wife and was filtered through the OP–which doesn’t imply any deception or inaccuracy, but does suggest that we don’t know much about the story. From what we’ve heard, it does sound like the guy is culpable, but no one has the whole truth.

I won’t try to defend adultery, but given the right set of circumstances, pretty much anyone could be driven to pretty much anything. If I say it couldn’t happen to me, it may just be because I haven’t been in those circumstances. And we don’t know his circumstances. Even those who know the external details of his life don’t know what goes on inside him.

Anyway, I tend to agree that if you can’t continue to see him as a friend, then don’t. Friendships do end. If the woman in his life offends you, don’t befriend her. It seems likely that maintaining a relationship with them would make you feel disloyal to the wife, and you seem close to her. There’s nothing wrong with choosing.

Then again, if I were the guy in question, and I were aware that I was being discussed as an “adulterer” and nothing else (I know, you can’t give the man’s name here, and we have to refer to him as something–still, that label isn’t the whole of his identity), and if my “religious” friends were not welcoming me and the woman in my life into their homes (I know, the OP isn’t religious–this isn’t directed at her), they wouldn’t be dropping me as a friend. I would be dropping them, and I’d be better off for it.

25

You know, you have every right to not spend time with this guy, but this is really none of your business. A friend does not need to help a friend navigate out of a situation if they haven’t been asked to. Why can’t you just let them work out their marriage difficulties and you can tend to being the friend you always were? For all you know, the wife may be a shrew, frigid, a drunk, a religious fanatic, or something equally off-putting. Unless he is physically causing harm to someone in that family there is no reason for you to judge him. People grow apart. Sometimes people push other people away. For all you know, they married for reasons other than love. Do yourself a favor…keep your distance and keep your friends.

26

I have both cheated and been cheated on, and I’m not talking about one night stands either. I’m glad that there are people like Scumpup, pinkfreud, Zoe, etc. who are able to see that there can be more to a story. No one knows what really goes on inside other people’s relationships, or other people’s heads.
I really don’t consider myself immoral scum; of course, YMMV.

27

Ditto to what Kalhoun just said.

Unless you were with them all throughout the marriage you don’t know 100% what happened, what he had an affair, what the details are, etc.

28

WHY he had an affair. GAH!

29

Custody of the friends is a tough one.

When I got divorced, most of my friends stayed mine, his friends stayed his. A few we kept in common. There was cheating involved on his part.

Since you aren’t close to him, I’d remain as close to him as you are currently…i.e. you’ll see him at the Superbowl parties. Be social and friendly, but don’t make a huge effort to be supportive. Don’t shun the new person, but don’t be cozy with her either.

On the other hand, YOU at least feel closer to her. She isn’t going to get invited to the Superbowl parties, but just because she isn’t everyone’s friend doesn’t mean she can’t be your friend. Invite her to lunch. Get your kids and hers together. You like her, she just got kicked in the stomach, sure, go out of your way to be supportive. If she says “do you guys still see Tom?” say “oh, about as much as we ever did, we see him over at Jeff’s house.”

Spend a few years not having parties where you need to invite everyone - just small “its a mom and kids thing” or “just the guys” things.

My guess is that things will continue pretty much as they ever have for him, she will start to disappear from the larger circle, but if you make an effort, will continue to be your friend.

30

Nothing personal, but out of curiosity, do any immoral scum consider themselves to be immoral scum?
I’d bet that the human brain has the amazing ability to make excuses for just about any behavior we might engage in.

31

C3, it doesn’t sound like you were very good friends with him to begin with. What if your father or mother did something similar? Or maybe your son or daughter? Would the same conditions still apply? I don’t think that your position makes any sense at all. If the cheater grew up in the western world (or most parts of the eastern world), he already knows that cheating is a no-no. Clearly, he had his reasons. Your banishment of him serves no purpose. If he was a friend before, he should still be a friend. And to not accept his new partner for social functions makes no sense. You can’t possibly have anything against her (worse than what you have against him).

I’m not a psychologist, but I think that your beliefs may be dictated by hidden motives, which could be subconscious. Perhaps you’d like to shun the friend to show your husband what would happen to him if he ever dared try such a thing. Would you be more comfortable if the new girlfriend was forced to wear a big red “A” on her chest?

Friends aren’t always people who agree with you. My friends and I have varying opinions on most issues. Some of my very good friends have cheated on their spouses; spouses that are also friends of mine. I don’t agree with this, but it’s not my job to set anyone straight. It’s also not my job to rat on them. Only they’ve walked in their shoes.

32

I know it, Polerius, but I promise you I’m a really super person. :wink:

33

Just in case I wasn’t clear, I’m not claiming that Dung Beetle is immoral scum. I’m just curious if any actual immoral scum consider themselves to be so.

34

Okay, it’s morning now…good day to everyone.

Thank you all for your responses, even those that I think are attributing malice to me that I don’t think is there. I think Dangerosa’s advice is probably the most relevant to the situation and I might be able to live with it. My only option would be to give up my entire circle of friends, which would not only suck, but would not be fair to my husband, either, since these are mostly his friends (in other words, if we got divorced, there wouldn’t be any chance of me showing up with my new boyfriend - ha!). I’m hoping he lays low for awhile until the emotions die down a bit. This has obviously been hard for him and his family, but it’s also really shaken this whole group, which includes his brother and people who have known him his whole life - and have been close to his wife for almost two decades. I have questioned what I will do in a social situation with him, but at this point, I have no idea what any of them will do. That may make my confusion irrelevant. My husband is also unsure of how to approach this.

To shed a little more light on the subject, this is the first time I’ve had to deal with something like this. I’ve known one other couple that this happened to and I was really friends with the wife from the beginning, so I never had to think about socializing with the husband…the situation just didn’t arise. I don’t knowingly have any friends who cheat or who have done anything really, cheating on taxes included.

Also, I have heard at least part of his side of the story. This affair started when his wife was pregnant. She hired someone to occasionally fill in for her at the business they run together when the pregnancy didn’t allow her to work. When the baby was born, he had some health problems (not life-threatening, but he did have several bouts of hospitalization). The husband’s explanation for the affair was that “it’s too hard” being a husband and father. He has said that he doesn’t like always having to hang out with the kids or do stuff around the house. I’m sure there are many, many other factors that have gone into this all on both sides, but when asked, this is the explanation he gave.

Another thought - some of you have questioned my use of the word “adulterer.” If he is not an adulterer, what exactly is? No matter what reasons he has, he cheated on his wife (and no, they didn’t ever have any sort of agreement that outside relationships were acceptable within their marriage).

Anyway, I’ve found all of the responses interesting. Even the ones that almost make me cringe have made me think about other sides of the issue. I can see that my initial reaction may have been too harsh. I still find this guy to be someone I can never be friends with, but I can manage being polite. I’m still hoping I don’t have to be in that situation at all, but it’s not likely.

35

Just let him know why you can’t be friends with him. Other than that it sounds like you’ve got a good idea of what to do: the whole being polite thing.

One of the guys I play street hockey with is a complete punk who has done many things I’ve found to be unsavory. I let him know why I don’t hang out with him outside of the games but I’m polite while we are playing. No overt penalties when I play against him and I even manage to pass the ball to him if we’re on the same team.

I would also like to add that his reason for the affair is complete and utter crap. This guy sounds like a dyed in the wool coward. I hope he gets bent over in the divorce proceedings and takes the gavel sideways.

36

One more thought, then I have to run. Some of you have said (or at least implied) that you would remain friendly with this person and that this wouldn’t have any real affect on your feelings for him or friendship. I’m curious - where is your line? Do you have one? What sort of thing could a person do that would cause you to not be friends with him anymore? Please don’t read that with any sort of snarky tone - I’m genuinely interested in this philosophy.

37

My relationship with my friends is based on how they relate to me. They are perfectly free to interact with their SO’s and other friends as they see fit. I would not stand for one of them sitting in moral judgment of my life outside our friendship, nor do I do such a thing to them.
Frankly, I also keep my friends at more of distance than it appears you do. I can’t imagine being part of tight little social set that is caught up in each other’s private lives. I like very distinct boundaries.

38

There are mistakes, and then there are giant raised middle fingers. This guy has done the latter to his wife and his kids. Especially his kids, sheesh.

There’s no need to get up in this guy’s face because let’s face it … he’s not thinking with his brain. But I can’t see hanging out with him and his lover.

I wouldn’t trust the lover further than I can throw her. She was the wife’s friend and she betrays her like this — not just once but many, many times? Not someone I’d want as a friend – and if I were the wife I’d consider it a slap in the face if my friends, knowing her role in the breakup of my marriage – befriended her.

Friendships are very conditional relationships, as are marriages and every other kind of relationship out there. This guy is free to screw around on his wife all he wants, but he shouldn’t expect his friends to respect him and/or want to be around him anymore. If he’ll dump his wife and his children to get laid, he’ll pretty much screw over anyone he has to in order to get what he wants.

I don’t think there’s any need to explain to him why you won’t be hanging out. He’ll figure it out.

39

I’m the opposite of Scumpup, in fact the two of us might be stereotypes of how guys and dolls do the friending thing different. My girlfriends and I know every minute detail of one another’s lives, and yes, their husbands and boyfriends would likely flip if they knew just how many details we discuss.

Sure, there’s a line, there’s always a line. For instance, one former girlfriend decided to have some sort of adolescent wild-oat-sowing reaction to the end of her marriage, I think it’s ridiculous for a 33 yo mother of two to start drinking and whoring and piercing herself, so I simply stopped returning her calls and distanced myself. We work together, making it particularly fun when cow-orkers constantly bring me gossip about her or think they can ask nosy questions since everyone knew we were close friends. I don’t consider it my job to steer her toward any other path and doubt any such guidance would be welcomed at all, rather than have drama I just chose to walk away. Circumstances changed, we no longer have things in common to base a friendship upon so we’re done.

I think you’re on the right track, being polite and not seeking out his company. No reason to bring extra fireworks to the situation and that’s how your first posts read to me, as if censuring him was somehow your responsibility. Sure you can let him know what you think of his behavior, won’t change anything or make future interactions any easier on anyone, that’s what I was getting at anyway.

40

I think we’ve been on a more similar page (although probably not the same page) since the beginning, then, because this is really what I meant when I said I’d leave in a “non-dramatic, quietly thank the host kind of way.” I wouldn’t not say anything to him about how I felt if I was sitting next to him and it seemed like the situation would allow it. I do feel like I would be ignoring what I believe is my responsibility to him to let him know where he stands with me, and by extrapolation, within our larger “community” of friends. If you knew me IRL, though, you’d probably find it laughable to imagine me in any sort of “fireworks” situation. I’m a very quiet, shy person and I can’t remember the last time I’ve raised my voice or had any sort of confrontational interaction with anyone. I’m not scared to let someone know what I’m thinking, but I’m a pretty low-key person and, I think, pretty tactful. I would feel somewhat comfortable talking to him about the situation, but if his new girlfriend was there, I wouldn’t want to have that conversation with him and just sitting around with him without having the conversation, I think, would be sending the wrong message. NOT that he has any obligation to heed any sort of message that I would send, but, well, you know.

That was pretty garbled, wasn’t it? I feel like I’m having to clarify myself way more than I would have to if you all were sitting here with me.

I’m going to try to come to some sort of happy medium that I can live with and that also doesn’t cause me to alienate everyone I know.

Scumpup, you have no line where you wouldn’t be friends with someone, as long as they treat you well personally? I would be very surprised if that were completely true and I have to say, I don’t think I’ve met anyone like that before. I agree with Abbie when she says that friendships (and marriages) are conditional. Besides my child, I can’t think of anyone on earth I would forgive for anything, even if whatever they did didn’t directly hurt me. I’ll admit that my line is probably a lot closer to the “moralistic” side than many people, but I would think everyone has their line somewhere.