Well, her not associating with these folks doesn’t preclude her husband associating with them. They’re not attached at the hip, after all. So he socializes with him/them without her. Big deal. The only thing I can think of that would be bad for him is if the circle were to grill him about why she doesn’t come to these things any more, and that bit of rudeness would absolutely not be her doing.
Giving your opinion isn’t controlling them. But it is an attempt to control them. That isn’t good for you or the other person. Each of us should be responsible for our own decisions and mistakes. Of course, if he asks for your input, that would be entirely different.
You, on the other hand, have a right to treat him and her however you choose to. No one can control your eventual choice, but you have asked for input. I don’t think that kindness is ever out of place. I have been too wicked in my own life to shun others unless they are a danger.
BTW, I agree with you that this man has show a lack of integrity in part of his life. The kind of dishonesty that overwhelms me is when a person is pretentious or morally inconsistent. Another example is the pathological liar and the person who lies for the sport of it.
One of the most charming and engaging friends that I had was a pathological liar. I never understood why she did it, but I couldn’t trust anything that she said or reply on her for anything. There was never an unkind word spoken between us, but I had to let the friendship slip away because it wasn’t based on anything that seemed real.
I hope that you will feel comfortable with whatever decision that you make. It’s good that you are able to be a comfort to the wife who is feeling so betrayed. I hope that she can rebuild her self-esteem.
Pax
FWIW, the guy sounds like a scumbucket to me, and I wouldn’t be his friend after this came to light. Yes, every human can screw up from time to time, but this was a years-long, deliberate, planned pattern of betrayal, lying, exposing his wife to disease, and endangering his kids’ intact home, with no indication that he was going to stop, and no indication of remorse since he was found out. That spells “asshole” to me.
That said, I think you have an obligation to any social hosts to politely tolerate his presence, whether or not his slut is with him. I wouldn’t invite him over or accept any of his invitations, but I wouldn’t leave a party he was also invited to - that would be rude to the host. My course would be to avoid contact with him as much as possible, and when contact was required to merely be polite. After all, we’re polite to lots of people every day, and for all we know they’re awful people too.
I do believe in forgiveness, but only if someone actually shows remorse. Otherwise, what is it but a blank check to run roughshod over everyone, and still get all the perks of friendship?
(BTW, I’m an atheist, if anyone’s curious.)
Jeez, how dense was I ---- you were taking shots at Prince Charles, weren’t you? I don’t usually get wooshed so completely, but boy did I get wooshed this time. I didn’t realize it until today, when the Prince and Camilla were getting married.
My hat’s off to you.
I’m wrestling with some of the same concerns myself. I do get where you are coming from. It saddens me to see some Dopers on this thread attribute some pretty harsh things to you. I think that’s unfair, FWIW.
I think Shirley’s take on it is right. I liked her post and her advice. You don’t know everything that has happened in the past that made this happen, or might happen in the future. And it’s not up to you to get all that figured out. I think you just have to roll with it.
Unfortunately, some people think we’re judgmental shrews for our feelings, but personally I think it’s only natural to feel a little weird about the fact that at the next social event, the wife will be swapped out for a new woman. It’s like when they got a new Darren in Bewitched, or swapped out Becky in Roseanne. But I think that awkwardness is something you have to deal with internally. If you’re uncomfortable with his new relationship, then I wouldn’t expect you to have them over for dinner. But I don’t think that discomfort makes it appropriate for you to say something to him at another social gathering.
I’m not that imaginative. No, unfortunately, no whoosh…this whole situation is actually happening.
I did think about this in reference to Prince Charles, though.
I have recently been through a similar situation. Before this had happened, I prided myself on being a loyal friend. Short of cruelty or serious criminal activity, I would be there for my friends, no matter what they had done. Some of my girlfriends were the cheaters. When asked, I told them they really needed to consider all the people that would be hurt by their actions, but when they needed me I was there for them. Everyone makes mistakes, friends help you through them.
But this latest situation I have found I am like you. The guy was cheating on his pregnant wife. He lied to everyone about the affair. Made up stories about going out of town on business, but really he was taking his new girl on exciting trips. When I started hearing whispers about him and the new girl, I told him what I had heard. I didn’t believe the rumors were true, I just thought he should know that people were misinterpretating the time he spent with her. He thanked me for telling him, assured me there was nothing to the rumors.
When the truth became public, I still wanted to be his friend. I knew I didn’t know what was going on in his marriage, I wasn’t going to judge him. But I found I just didn’t feel the same way about him. I remembered his lying to me, not that he “owed” me the truth, but it let me know what he thought of me as a friend. I wouldn’t have wanted him to tell me at that point about the affair, it was none of my business. But now in the back of my mind I question everything he tells me. He lied to his wife for a year about the affair, and he lied to his new girl when he met her, didn’t admit he was married, then said he was married, but separated, which wasn’t true, and she had to find out from a mutual friend that his wife was pregnant, so yet another lie about no longer sleeping with his wife.
He brings the new girl around. I am polite, but not friendly like I used to be. I am not trying to punish him for betraying his wife. I just don’t feel the same way toward him.
Others in this thread have said when you meet someone and fall in love, you can’t help the way you feel. Well, that works both ways. You can’t help it when no longer feel someone is not the person you believed them to be.
I wish I was still comfortable with him to invite him to our parties, and other outings that he used to be included in. But I am not. Some of the qualities I admired in him were connected to his being a devoted husband and father. But now that I know how he left his wife, who was on bed rest because of a difficult pregnancy, alone to care for their 3-year old son, so he could take his new girl to LA and Mexico, my admiration and respect for him are gone. He was once such a good friend, and I miss him, but I guess I am missing the person I thought he was, not the person he had become.
So all that is to say I do think there are times when you can draw a line, and no longer want someone as a friend. But it is not done out of spite, or because you have judged them and feel they deserve it. It happens because the person you know them to be, is no longer the person you once befriended. A one time fling, or a thoughtless word or deed doesn’t change who you are. Years of deception does. At least that is the conclusion I have come to.
I talked to my mother about this, because she’s had to deal with similar situations throughout her life. She said to just make sure I bring my knitting to anything he may attend. Then, if I’m uncomfortable, I can just knit away! Think of all the stuff I could make! 