That doesn’t make sense. Breathing rate and pulse rate are symptoms of how fast your metabolism is working. and both work much faster during exercise than they do during watching TV.
Also, as far as building muscle to burn fat, i know alot of weightlifters with 50-70 lbs more muscle than everyday joes and their caloric intake is not massive. 4500 a day tops.
Well, on your juice question. Juice is basically taking a good vitamen and energy source and reducing it to little more than sugar water. You are missing out on the fiber, and some fruit especially when juiced can be really high on the glycemic index.
As to fat being “created” from carb intake? Any caloric intake over your calories used will result in fat (over a sustained period of time, with no correlating increase in activity, this is not to mean that if you have heavy meal one day once in a while that you’ll suddenly gain a ton of weight from it). Not just carbs.
When you eat your carb portion, you’ll get far better results from a “clean” carb, such as brown rice, raw fruits, beans, etc.
For one thing, they’ll give you a more “full” feeling. Juice pretty much goes right through you, not to mention it “dumps” into your blood stream pretty quickly and can create insulin spikes (those can lead to energy crashes and are possible binge triggers).
Whereas the “clean” carbs have a more sustained and effective “burn”.
As to your exercise Q. This is where a lot of people get confused and also frustrated. What’s a good hard workout for one person, may be a walk in the park for another.
It will depend upon (in no particular order):
Your age,
Sex
Current physical fitness level
Historical physical fitness level
genetics
body type
Are you talking of an exercise bike? Or a regular outdoor bike? An outdoor bike will work you harder because of having to balance and so on.
How do you feel when you ride at 10 mph? Does it take little effort? Are you breathing hard? A good rule of thumb to reach a moderate (for most people) cardio zone is the “Talk, can’t sing” rule. (for some reason I don’t HAVE a pulse when I try to located it to do a heartrate).
If you can talk without too much stress, but don’t have enough breath to sing, you’re at a moderate, going into somewhat active level. Pick up the pace a little, to where you’re having to work to breathe evenly (remember, in through the nose, out the mouth, try to breath in an even pattern, such as in/in out/out to the beat of your jog, or peddling).
That second zone is moving you closer to a fat burning zone. Kick it up one or two more notches, the next being where you’re really having to concentrate on the breathing and you’re really feeling it in the legs etc. And the next you’re full on TUZ (the throw up zone :D, as we dubbed it in an online fitness group to which I belong).
I’m pretty partial to Bill Phillip’s Body for Life, it’s nothing new, it takes no nonsense information that’s been around for decades and simply puts it into a user friendly KISS format. “Fitness for Every Body” is a book our fitness director (some 30 years experience under her belt) wrote for the college where I work. Same concept, KISS, I’m not sure if it’s available in the lower 48 or not.
I guess Atkins even has an “Atkins for Life” which is jumping on the BFL coattails and has SOME information which is handy.
I’d highly recommend shopping around for a good personal trainer and if you can at all afford it, spend 2 or 3 sessions with him/her to get started. If not a personal trainer, at least the gym personnel (and get several opinions, everyone has their “Pet” schools of thought fitness wise, obviously I’m not immune to that either :D)
Take care and I hope this helps!!!
The idea of being able to eat 4500 calories a day puts me on the brink of hysteria.
I started a “debunking Atkins” thread in GD a while back. The bottom line is that yes, it works. You get sudden and dramatic weight loss. The rub though is that a fair amount of that is water weight which comes right back, the weight loss is still due to calorie deduction, cholesterol does tend to go down (which happens with most weight loss,) and few few people keep the weight off for an extended period with the Atkins approach.
Don’t want to have an Atkins discussion here, but the thread is extremely well cited.
LOL, one of the things that astonished me when I went for MY big loss (I’d gained WAY too much for my small boned frame thanks to a bout of clinical depression and good ole zoloft, long boring story).
ANYWAY, when I was safely and completely tapered off I started back on a full-fledged program and increased my intake by about 800 calories not all at once, but within about 3 months) and LOST most of my zoloft tonnage in about 8 months, when I hit a plateau, I found that I actually needed to increase my intake a little, POOF, bye-bye plateau. (now, granted, I tend to be a bit gung-ho and over the top about my workouts, I’d rather hit it hard at the gym and have a yummy treat than cut back on food and take it easy at the gym, especially since I enjoy exercise anyway). Those little muscles DO need to be fed correctly if you want them to stick around.
Oh, one tip that use religiously. You’ve GOT to have good music. IMO, it’s almost impossible to work out without it. I’m always amazed at the people who can watch the news and run on the treadmill.
ME? I gotta have those 195 BPM songs blasting in my ear.
Oh, and for those just starting out, that tend to have the “oh, I just DON’T wanna do this” draggy feeling? Try some of the following tips.
1.) "The 10 minute rule (I got it from some “Hints From Heloise” type housework book, but it works well for fitness too!!).
Anyway, if you get to that “Oh GOD, I’m just too tired”. Tell yourself “Okay, but just do ten minutes, THEN if you’re still too tired, you can go ahead and stop”.
Some of my best workouts have been on “10 minute rule” nights. And yeah, ocasionally the answer after 10 minutes was “I’m going home, I feel like crap”. But not very often.
2.) Try “cribbing” (horse people will know what I’m talking about). Get yourself oxygenated up. Take several huge very fast, sucking, GULPING in breaths, let them out slowly (I’ve used this one, it helps a LOT).
3.) Smile, I know, it sounds corny as hell, but make a huge, goofy “I’m so happy” grin. Smile as if you just won a millions bucks. The theory is that the act of smiling releases hormones that make you feel as if you really ARE feeling pretty good, and it’ll help increase your energy level a bit, and will help you feel happier and more “into it”. (and Yes, I use this one too, it works).
Again, hope this helps!!!
I agree that this isn’t the place for an Atkins debate. I’m not a follower myself (what, and give up fruit??). But I became more open minded about it when I read the latest research from places like Harvard Medical School and other sources of sound nutritional research. The latest thinking is that it’s safe and can result in real long term weight loss for some people - not just water loss. In any discussion about weight loss, it’s an option to be thrown out there.
Hi,
I know the Atkins thing came up a few pages ago but wanted to tie in my own experience as a fat person and also my experience with the diet. Sorry for the length but this is a long thread and I have alot to cover :).
First of all, I have always been “stocky”. I was an active, outdoor tomboy growing up. I’m still a fairly active person now, not formal exercise so much but I’m outdoorsy and busy with my dogs (I train and compete with them). The first time I felt self conscious about my weight was when I was about 12 years old and weighed 103 pounds. The look on my mom’s face when I got over 100 lbs is still something I can remember, although at the time I was very near my adult height of 5’ 1’ already and 103 was in no way fat. When I see pics of myself at that time, I see a girl thats gained weight solely because of puberty- not because of any lack of control, will power, etc. I should mention that my mom is also very critical of her own weight- she was an athletically built girl with a tiny petite mother who probably did the same thing to her as she did to me. Its not my mother I blame now for my weight issues, I realize that she didn’t want me to go through what she felt was a rough time because she was bigger than some girls.
When I was 17 and 117 lbs my mom convinced me to go on a doctor supervised “shake diet”. I lost 12 lbs almost instantly but I can’t remember that I was happier when I was thin, or feeling like I looked any better. Mostly I remember that I was starving all the time but I continued thinking I was getting my mom’s approval. Eventually I got fed up with shakes twice a day and a super low fat meal and returned to my normal way of eating, which was essentially a balanced diet with occasional snacks/treats. My family has always been veggie lovers- my mom did do that right- we ate healthy for my entire childhood and teenage years. I gained the weight back, plus 20 lbs- without changing my habits (exercise or diet) from what I was before I went on that diet. Three more times I went on low fat, low calorie diets I regained the weight and then some. Each time I did these diets I DID maintain for years before slipping back. Yes, my own willpower had something to do with that- but I don’t feel I was overeating at any time- I was trying to get back to a normal (i.e not rabbit food/starving diet) balanced diet. Every time I could only get to a certain weight, first I got to 115 but couldn’t budge past that, the next time it was 125, then 130- each time I yo-yo’d, I couldn’t bring myself back below the last low weight- no matter what I tried. Then I did lose control, completely, about 3 years ago. I was in a destructive relationship and was extremely depressed. I started abusing alcohol- food was a good absorber. I still had habits from my low fat days- I didn’t go to Macdonalds and supersize- but I would eat a big bowl of stir fry with lots of “fat free” rice. I never ate breakfast during the week. I drank diet soda and have never been a big sweets eater. I left the relationship - it took me 6 months after that- with several stops and starts that had little to do with will power- to get back to where I needed to be emotionally. I went back on a low fat diet , cut out the drinking, exercised more for three months and lost 10 lbs out of 60 I needed to lose. It was intensely frustrating- not just because I felt the weight loss was unfairly slow (after years of yo-yoing what could I expect!) but I felt awful, hungry, and very cranky.
Then I started Atkins… the reason I posted this is because even in the articles posted to show how “unhealthy” the diet is, supposedly by doctors and scientists, the misconception continues. One of these articles says that Atkins limits carbs to 20 per week- which isn’t entirely true. Atkins uses that limit for the first TWO WEEKS of induction- after that carb limits can be increased until you get to the point where you do not lose weight anymore. For some people thats 30-40 carbs a day, others its more than 60 a day. Another pet peeve of mine is to see the “unlimited meats and fats” notion- its not at all the point of Atkins- in fact if you do it right you will be eating more vegetables than anything else and you will eat until you are SATISFIED, which is much quicker when you are eating things you actually like and know that your next meal will be just as good and not a diet substitute of some type or another.
I have lost more than 30 lbs in 6 1/2 months. Only a somewhat faster rate than the low fat diet was giving me- but the difference is in how I feel. I have never felt better- period. Even when I was working out regularly and at one of my skinniest points in college- I did not feel this consistent amount of energy. I do not eat “unlimited” amounts of fat, although my fat content is around the normal “reccommended” limits to maintain weight (which are laughable if you are coupling that fat with normal caloric intake). I do not eat a diet “high in protein”. I do eat small to moderate amounts of protein with most meals. I eat veggies at most meals- almost always my veggie portion is bigger than the protein. My snacks are now always healthy and much more satisfying. I no longer poison my body with diet soda except on very rare occasions :). I don’t know if its lower calorie that does it or not, I know I’m eating more calories than I did on my most recent low fat diet- but losing faster. I also notice days that I skimp on meals and don’t eat enough calories I tend to slow down in weight loss or completely stall.
The idea that Atkins is high protein and unlimited fat content comes from the INTIAL INDUCTION period- which is a CORRECTIVE period that is designed to cut down cravings for bad carbs, create good carb habits and to jump-start your metabolism. The studies that state people dropped out do not clarify if the subjects followed only the induction-style diet or did as the diet intends- gradually increase carb intake to a level that closely resembles a healthy diet without the junk- white flour, sugar, etc. Regardless, people don’t stick with most diets- can’t remember the study but I think it was something like only 5% of dieters successfully maintain the weight. I don’t think Atkins has the 95% of that- its just common sense that if you revert to your former eating habits- you will gain it back.
There is always emphasis on the meat- esp bacon- but Atkins himself has said that we should not eat bacon daily. He also said, as someone else mentioned, that we eat until we are full- no more than that. Thats not the same as saying its an “unlimited” quantity diet.
Yes, I do eat fruit- more than I did before as a matter of fact. I don’t eat just “any” fruit- but I do have several options. I eat more veggies too- I’m a veggie lover and have always eaten them well but now they are my principle carb source. For a diet thats always said to have variety problems- I have to wonder about that since the food group I eat most (veggies) also is the most variable diet. There are only a few veggies that are considered off the diet- and even those can be enjoyed occasionally without breaking the diet. Who needs them since all the good veggies- artichokes, zucchini, broccoli, cauliflower, salad veggies, AVOCADOS (my fav)- to name a few- are not only allowed but encouraged. And no, I don’t need to smother them in cheese and butter to enjoy them- in fact I’ve been out of butter for a couple of weeks.
I don’t eat globs of fat. My typical (by no means repetitive) menu includes a healthy breakfast- low carb hot cereal or low carb tortilla with VEGGIES and cheese and a lean lunch meat. Or a half of a two egg omelet (the other half can make a good lunch)- again with lots of veggies. Lunch is often salad- again with a reasonable amount of protein and a generous amount of salad veggies. Dinner can range from a vegetable faux “pasta” type meal to a meat/veggies meal. Most of my meals are entirely “whole” foods, and fresh foods at that. The veggies taste better with pasta sauce than pasta does- they certainly have more flavor. I rarely have “seconds” of anything- so much for “unlimited quantities”. I’m not a sweet freak, so the occasional Endulge product or SF Jello does it for me. I can go to a restaurant and order a very good meal and still be very legal on my diet. The only thing it “severely restricts” is the junk we shouldn’t eat anyways.
Its my understanding that no studies have shown that the Induction period of Atkins causes any kidney dysfunction in healthy individuals. Certainly no study has shown that eating Atkins the way I am- past induction and NOT high protein- is anything but a healthy diet that works for some people. Every person is different and what works for me may not work for everyone. But I do know this is a diet I can live with, I don’t even like the word diet because I don’t feel restricted. I may have retrained myself not to eat certain things but I’m in no way deprived. I also have found a great community of supportive folks who are also low-carbers- what a difference that makes!
As far as the OP is concerned- yeah- maybe a donut wasn’t the best choice for an obese person- but until you’ve walked in her shoes- lived her life- you have no right to judge her.
Whatever one can stick with longterm (while getting all the necessary nutrients) is the plan to go with. Same with exercise - find something you like! I like the music-at-the-gym and the ten minute ideas in an earlier post, too.
Sorry,
For some reason it won’t let me edit my post but its 20 carbs per DAY on the Induction period, not per week.
I tried to get into yoga once, and though it wasn’t for me, it was indeed very very cool. Pilates are the current fashion but Yoga will probably do you for life if you got the discipline to stick with it.
I guess it depends on what we’re talking about. Men and women both tend to get thicker around the hips as they age, and gravity does inevitable things. As far as I’m concerend the aging thing is mostly to due with lifestyle. We tend to get sedentary.
That puts you in pretty rarified air. Congrats.
You and me both. I have the perfect guarranteed solution. Start growing younger not older. 
Serioulsy Yoga is good. What i went with though is one of those big stretchy rubber bands and a book. Three years later I got a Doctor friend to give me a roll of thick surgical tubing, which is even better. I’d recommend the stretchy band, but get a trainer to show you how to do it. It’s a great one time investment. You can work wonders on sore joints and old war wounds with those things.
No, I did not. I know a lot that could possibly help generally overweight people in otherwise good health. I would not pretend to know how to help somebody with a medical condition that was responsible for their weight gain. A severe eating disorder is a medical dondition.
In a word, they’re a bitch, but they’re also somewhat illusory, IMO. For example, an overweight person may be exercising and eating right and their weight may stay rock steady, and they may feel like they’re getting nowhere. The funny thing though is that there tends to be a lot of change going on at these times when people feel like nothing is happening. If one is exercising a lot, they may be losing fat and gaining muslce, their cardiovascular system is changing, and all this is happening beneath a layer of fat and on the inside where they can’t see it and the weight is staying the same. In fact, they may feel they’re getting fatter as new muscle grows underneath a layer of fat. And, all this time the weight doesn’t go down. It might even go up!
So, people feel they’re getting nowhere, and they deempahsize the exercise and crash diet for quick results and lose a lot of that new muscle. They end up basically short circuiting the natural process. If somebody is both out of shape and overweight and they try to change it intelligently, they tend to stay the same weight or even put on a little weight at first. It can be disheartening, but it is a good thing.
Then there’s the other kind of set point. That’s where a very healthy very fit person is at the weight they should be, but just aren’t satisfied with the way they look, and they try to put their bodies into a place where they shouldn’t be.
Reckon so, and after 3 hours blading down the beach I’m far too mellow to sweat the small stuff. Endorphins, you’ve got to love them.
This is great wisdom. Nothing helps the miles flow by, or squeezes just a bit more speed out of you, than a fine tune. Hell, I could be a half dead corpse and Super Furry Animals “The man don’t give a fuck” would still get me blitzing through one more mile. Bless their little sweary, welsh socks.
Meh. It’s great wisdom if you spin it as “As long as it works for you.” It’s very personal, and trying to shoehorn yourself into someone else’s idea of the ideal workout is a recipe for failure. About the only exercise I can stomach other than swimming is using a rowing machine at home. And I need the TV on. Movies are better, because while working out, commercials are the most excruciating thing conceivable.
YMMV, and probably will.
Well, I can think of a few things in your answer that don’t make sense either, but fact 1) I’m just going on what I remembered of what I read years ago, so I could be wrong, and fact 2) However it works, cardio does the trick. The devil is in the details.
I can’t provide you with an online cite, but it came from Fit or Fat by Covert Bailey.
I should mention that there was a distinction drawn between bulk muscle and lean muscle. Bulk muscle can be very marbled, and will do little or nothing to burn fat. And bulkers are at as great a danger as out of shape people to gain fat weight, and for heart disease.
But it’s possible to have muscle that’s both lean and bulky. Apparently cardio combined with strength training will get you there. Ibid.
I’ve been doing a modified Atkins (no white flour or grain products, no sugar) since Thursday, and I’ve already lost 3-4 pounds! It’s just amazing. Drinking plenty of water, and limited fruit.
That’s great!
Can you be more specific? What’s a grain product? Can you have wheat bread, potatoes, any kind of pasta or rice, or corn? What starches are aloud? And what’s wrong with fruit?
Eh…no.
Ok I was morbidly obese for several years and I frequently at only one meal a day, and not a particularly large one. I usually couldn’t finish my plate at a restaurant, for instance. I was fat because when I got pregnant, my metabolism changed, and my activity level dropped. By the time I was healthy enough to move around more, I’d gained so much weight that it was hard to do it. So for ME I was fat because I was sedentary, not because I ate a lot. My body just hoarded what it took in.
–Opal, who is now 87lbs lighter than she was last November.
Oh, I want to add:
Before I got pregnant I never had to worry about my weight. It stayed between 112 and 117 all on its own. Don’t take it for granted folks… things can change.
But see, that’s still because you ate too much. You ate too much for the sedentary lifestyle you were leading. Tarantula was merely aknowledging simple thermodynamics. If the energy coming in is more than the energy going out, the person will gain weight. If someone is suddenly unable to exercise, their normal energy input becomes “too much” because it is no longer balanced by their energy output.
Sometimes I am suprised at the rationalizations people will go through in order to ignore the basic thermodynamics of this.
No.
When you are morbidly obese it is very very hard to exercise. Tell you what. You go do your exercize routine with a 40lb bag of dogfood under each arm and tell me how easy it is for you. Give up quickly? My god you are lazy!! Such lack of discipline!
Last winter I was 87lbs heavier than I am right now. That’s two 40lb bags of dogfood plus a gallon of milk. It is SO much easier for me to do active things now. It used to hurt to walk to the mailbox, fercrissake!
I have had bad knees from the time I was a child–to the point where even as a teenager there were days I couldn’t walk. When I put on 100lbs, boy howdy did they get worse! REALLY BAD. Lots of pain. Joint problems are extremely common in obese people.
It can be difficult to breathe. Getting out of breath, having your heart race so fast you can’t even hear anymore… these are things that happen very quickly when you’re fat.
I’m not saying that exercise is impossible, I’m just saying that it’s a bit simplistic and disengenuous to say that it’s “just laziness” or lack of self discipline that keeps the obese from exercise.
Would you like me to apologise for agreeing with CanvasShoes that music is a great exercise aid without explicitly stating that some people may prefer to exercise to the television, or indeed in complete sensory isolation?