From Amazon:
Summary:
and here is all the Tanita stuff:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/694686/ref=br_dp__2/102-6322015-5497762
Hope that helps.
Well, take heart in that you’ve helped at least one person on this board.
Oh, I’m sorry! Didn’t that link have a “this will take you to the new site” type message? I sent that one from my work computer where I don’t have the “good links” in my faves. Thanks Scylla for giving him some links!
Well, I DO have a personal comment on this. I DO feel as if I’m “one of the lucky ones”.
I adore “good food” items like brussel sprouts and raw carrots. I also LOVE exercise. I enjoy it a LOT. I don’t like jogging too much (jars my knees and eyes too much [DON’T laugh!!!]), but otherwise, I love aerobics of all sorts and weight lifting.
My enjoyment of these things really IS, imo, a form of “being lucky”.
I can’t imagine being truly large and really hating exercise and how it makes you sweat and feel as if you’re going to puke and can’t breathe and knowing it’s either than miserable existance OR being fat.
Now, NOTE that does NOT mean that I think that exercise has to be that way, that’s part of what I help people DO who are wanting to lose weight. That is, helping them realize that exercise doesn’t have to be one of Dante’s circles of hell. And showing them a way to learn to enjoy it at THEIR own pace and abilities.
Also, Imo, this “you’re so lucky” attitude doesn’t really come from a place of “well you just had it handed to you”. I think for many obese people, it comes from a place of “I’ve tried and TRIED to do what you are doing and for me it didn’t work, there must be something wrong with ME”.
Again, noting that what they’ve “tried” was obviously not an effective or permanent solution, hence it seems that what others accomplish might seem a matter of luck to them, UNTIL they learn a way that’s effective for them…
Oh HELL yes, and here’s just one cite from a personal trainer, as to why.
http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner/library/weight/scale.htm
The scale is an evil, EVIL being. It inaccurately portrays a person’s fitness level and leads them to the “Dark Side”.
Really? Care to share?
Me, me!
Thank you, Scylla, elf6c, Mr. Miskatonic, & CanvasShoes.
I’m gonna go put that scales away in a closet and check out those links.
(from the first or second page, but the other pages are all more of the same):
Whoa. Listen to how it’s okay to generalize about and criticize people who try to keep fit.
Some people have worked hard and sacrificed a lot (resisted the desired doughnuts, gotten out of bed early to exercise when they really wanted to sleep in) to lose the weight. Those of us who have done that kind of thing resent it when people who haven’t act like they should qualify for affirmative action. I’m sorry people are overweight. I don’t mean to minimize the difficulty in doing something about it or even to suggest that everyone can. If you are offended by this thread, use it as inspiration to do something about it if you can. If you truly are one of the few who have medical problems or take medications that make it impossible to lose weight, I feel for you and I am sorry. I know some fabulous people who are immensely overweight and I never forget that we all have faults, weaknesses and limitations.
But why is it okay to ridicule practically everybody except heavy people on this message board?
BooksWoods, that was a rhetorical question, based on the assumption that the person it was addressed to had made about another person.
And look at all the body size ridicule. It’s everywhere, all over the charts, the scales. Skinny, fat, whatever. If someone offends a poster, calling them on body size is certainly the way to direct the attention to the behavior that was offensive, right? No, calling them on body size, appearance, race, gender or religion rarely has anything to do with the offensive behavior, unless it’s a food police thread.
The “fat bitch who hit my car” or “skinny knacker who blah, blah, blah” or whatever…body size is used as an identifier for everybody here, so that we can be as repulsed by the person as by the behavior. Make sense? Nope. But this isn’t called the Pit for nothing.
graci. ironically that website you listed was one of the few ‘good ones’ i’d already found. I’d also like to know what all books you can recommend.
i have another Q for you, or canvas or anyone else with experience in this issue. That website you listed states that a person can only create 12 grams of storable fat from carbohydrates a day. Since the main problem with losing weight is keeping it off, would a maintenance diet that is high in sugary drinks be a good idea? The way i see it if you drink alot of orange juice, pepsi or lowfat milk then you will be getting about 1/3 of your daily calories strictly from carbs via beverages. However they will all be sugar and i don’t know how healthy it is to eat such a large amount of sugar. Plus the webpage doesn’t list if the storage of fat from carbohydrate consumption is for generating new fat cells or refilling old ones which have been emptied.
Also, the site states that a low-moderate intensity aerobic regime is best for long term fat loss. Is riding a bicycle at 10 mph considered this? I would assume so since they consider light jogging low-moderate intensity.
I would have to argue that 2 pounds a week in weight is the figure most doctors or dieticians cite as a safe level to lose without bringing on starvation mode. I would also point out that as this is a mixed approach, the body is even more likely to take the calories it needs from fat rather than muscle.
Not disputed. That’s why I am arguing that a balanced diet and exercise approach is so important.
No-one is trapped eating hummus and cardboard. 1800 calories a day is actually a pretty standard figure for a persons intake, and can certainly be achieved without any particular hardship. A person who eats say cereal and fruit for breakfast, a sandwich and chips for lunch, and then has a decent evening meal can stay well under this figure. You have actually used the same tactic you accuse others of, attacking a diet as having to be based on rabbit food.
And again, you’re going to have to give some reasonable evidence that a person on that level of diet (-700 calories a day from basal) and exercising at that level is going to hit starvation mode. 2 pounds a week is a very standard guideline figure for weight loss without hitting starvation mode. You rely on this as one of your core arguments, so I think you must give some basis for it.
Third, you make no acknowledgement that this is a balanced approach, combining diet and exercise. All of the advantages you give for exercising promoting weight loss apply here too.
I must also make two other points. Your approach also involves dieting. A person who eats “lots of basic unprocessed foods, eat a good breakfast, and a smaller dinner, reasonable portions and eat when you’re hungry just try not to eat crap.” is actually a person who is eating healthily, and cutting down on a lot of unnecesary calories. That’s a diet, by any other name. Secondly, that by placing the emphasis on exercise as the prime component of burning calories, it’s going to take a lot of people a long time to reach a point where they’re actually fit enough to exercise at a significant level where they’re losing real weight, or feeling any better. The longer the period before you see results, the more likely it is you will decide that it’s not working, and give up.
As such, I really must argue that a balanced diet and exercise plan is the best system for weight loss. By all means, at later stages in the diet, the emphasis can shift to allow eating more when you’re exercising more, but just to focus on one of these components is to miss out on the benefits of the other.
No. No time. Must excercise now.
OK, a little bit. Five years ago I topped out at about 250. I was encouraged by doctors to lose some weight (they threatened me with death). So I started a program of excercise and rabbit food. In a little over a year I was down to 205. Then a number of events conspired to wean me back on to the unhealthy stuff. I’m back up to 250 and unhealthy as ever.
A few weeks ago I decided I was tired of the flab and the breathlessness and started back in, albeit in a half-assed way. You’ve inspired me to go full-assed.
And your facts about diet vs exercise are interesting. I’m not going to take them at face value just yet, but it’s an interesting take. I can double check them with my sister and her husband, who make their livings by being informed on exactly those kinds of things.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to get ripped.
Gary:
I think we might be mutually misreading each others’ posts. What I am maintaining is that exercise is more important than diet. People today tend to focus mostly on diet and minimize or even ignore the exercise aspect. If you just diet your body is likely to go into starvation mode depending on your metabolism and how severe the diet is, lose muscle mass, and yo-yo back when you go off the diet.
If you just exercise, and don’t change your diet, you will tend to gain muscle, and lose fat, and your increased calorie usage will tend to make you lose weight slowly.
I would absolutely agree with you that a combination of diet and exercise is by far the best way to go. Diet is very important, and I don’t wish to minimize that. The exercise portion has been getting the short shift for ages though.
As for the 2 pounds a week as a guideline? I dunno. I think it’s a big mistake to look at it that way. People’s fluid retention changes depending on all kinds of factor, as does the amount of waste they have in them. And losing 2 pounds for a 275 pound person is somewhat different than losing 2 pounds for a 145 pound girl. Losing any kind of muscle tends to be countereffective, and people do vary in their metabolisms. Some may go into starvation mode easier than others.
Calculus:
I’ll try to put together a good bibliography for you before the weekend’s out.
Go tdn!!!
Beefcake! BEEFCAKE!
Now hold on here a minute – no more cake, and cut back on the beef. Yeah, that should help.
Years ago I read that the whole calories in/out thing is basically a myth. However, I seemed to have misplaced the cite (a book by Covert Bailey) when I moved. And I couldn’t remember what it said, so I didn’t really mention it.
But I’ve since remembered.
The calories in/out thing is a myth, sort of. It’s not like you eat X calories in a day and exercise X+Y in the same day. It’s pretty much impossible. To work off one hot fudge sundae, you’d need to jog for about a week without stop. By exercising, you burn off only trivial amounts of calories and zero subcutaneous fat.
You lose calories and fat by sleeping, eating, and watching TV. But to do that you must condition your muscles to burn calories while you do those sedentary activities. That’s where exercise comes in. You turn big muscle groups into lean fat-burning machines.
Muscles on a fat person are generally marbled with fat, much like a good steak. By exercising, you burn off that intramuscular fat. When that is gone, the lean muscle then goes after the subcutaneous fat. That’s when weight loss starts to happen. And that is why exercise is important.
But that doesn’t mean you can eat hot fudge sundaes for breakfast. Those calories – especially the fat calories – will work against your efforts. Not to mention the other effects that fat deposits will have on your coronary arteries.
Here’s one plan that would probably work for most people (IANAD, so take with a grain of salt substitute):
Cardio for 20-40 minutes a day, 3-7 days per week.
Misc. exercise – take the stairs instead of the elevator. Walk instead of drive to work. Get up to change the TV instead of using the remote.
Try to eat fewer than 20 grams of saturated fat per day. 10 is better.
Some foods have little sat-fat, but a lot of sugar. Soda and sherbert come to mind. Avoid them.
Complex carbos (wheat instead of white bread) is a Good Thing.
If you feel the need to indulge occasionally, do so. No need to skip Thanksgiving dinner. Just don’t pig out on leftovers for the next week.
And that’s it.
Scylla, ever thought of opening an Ask the Fitness Dude thread?
tdnAnd then there is the Atkins diet which flies in the face of all previous nutritional wisdom but seems to help many people lose a lot of weight AND be pretty healthy (many report lowered cholesterol counts, as well as weight loss, after being on this diet for awhile). Eat the cheeseburgers, but throw away the bun. I was very skeptical about this until I read recent nutritional research that bears it out.
i think you have to look at the fat person’s point of view and anyone who has not been an overeater will not understand the power of it. Some people cannot contorl themselves even if you told them they were going to die at age 45, probably just cause them to eat more.
this whole post about seeing fat people eat has always gotten to me to the point where i didn’t and don’t eat in public anymore. I weigh 118 pounds and get yelled at my doctor because i am underweight but this ‘fat bashing’ has even gotten to me. It’s your body who cares what you do or don’t eat. don’t let society control you forces together! LIBERATE!!!
My doctors (internist, bariatric surgeon and psychiatrist) said that I would benefit from a gastric bypass and I have. That included removal of part of my intestines. Not only did it change my eating habits, but I am no longer obsessed with thoughts of food. That part was a surprise.
“He”? One doctor said that trying yet another diet would be futile. My nutritionist gave me some suggestions that have been helpful and I’ve done some reading on nutrition. The other doctor said that I can’t do cycling or stairmasters. That’s okay because I enjoy walking once I’m out of the house. And I want to try either pilates or yoga in addition. (Which do you recommend of those two?)
As a whole, I find that most doctors don’t know squat about weight loss, nutrition and exercise. It’s not their fault. I just don’t think it is part of the med school curriculum unless, perhaps, their specialty requires it.
No, I have the distinct impression that the problems that estrogen causes are not just water weight. I will see if I can find more info.
I totally agree. He might feel a little better but that wouldn’t do much to imporve his overall health.
All of the research that I have read contradicts that. It is not rare for people to have more trouble losing weight as they age and genetics is a big obstacle. It can be overcome in many cases.
No, I’m not a doctor. And I’m not the one who said:
I am the woman who lost 150 pounds and has kept 80% of that off for five years.
My first weight loss efforts were at the age of 14. I was 5’3" and weighed 130. I wanted to weigh 105. I thought I was fat and my notions were reinforced by my mother. By the time I had the surgery forty years later, I had dieted my way up to 300 pounds.
I am reasonably happy with my weight, but I would like to loosen up my joints a little.
I think that it’s great to want to help people with all of the knowledge about fitness that you have. But I think that you may have generalized from your own weight loss to situations that are very different. (Did you have an eating disorder?)
How do “set points” figure into weight loss?
Certainly we can agree that a nutritious diet and appropriate exercise are a solid foundation.