Books:
As I said, I was simplifying. People binge on both carbs and fats though.
I agree with this statement; However, for me, personally, I never want to binge on fats uless white carbs are involved. I will (have in the past) uncontrollably eaten white carbs that were low-or-no-fat, and uncontrollably eaten fats that were high in white carbs. I’ve never binge eaten fats and proteins that were not carb-heavy. So, for me, this system where I just don’t eat these white carbs at all, is very effective for me. YMM (and apparently does) V.
An interesting book to read that somewhat explains why different people respond to different foods would be the (don’t remember the author) “Eat right for your type”.
While I’m not sure that I believe it has to do with blood type, I very MUCH believe that different things will work for different people.
My system will operate for a LONG time on complex carbs like brown rice and oatmeal.
Meat causes unlady like digestive problems (constipation) for me unless taken in small quantities and with a LOT of high fiber carbs along with it.
Some people have just the opposite problem, fruit and grains cause them to have the opposite problem.
This is another reason I HATE the useless phrase “eat less, exercise more”. People need to know WHAT that means for THEM before it can truly work.
Another poster said something to the effect of “well sometimes you’ll just have to BE hungry and resist that”
Not true. One of the best ways to kick a screwed up metabolism into gear is by feeding often, and eating small meals. Five to six “mini-meals” at 1.5 - 3 hours intervals. Adding dark leafy greens in between. If you’re “grazing” like this, you’re going to find it hard to eat all of your meals a day rather than finding yourself hungry.
And that’s not some newfangled idea either, it’s the same methods used by fitness and weightlifting guru’s from WAY back as long ago as Jack Lalanne.
40/40/20 (protein/carbs (“clean” or complex carbs)/fat per meal is a great ratio for nearly everyone.
The usual disclaimer applies.
You poor sad man. Clearly you have never eaten an entire bag of …
PORK RINDS!
(nature’s perfect food)
Canvasshoes:
Sure. People are different. But, they also have a degree of sameness. A lot of these differences are attributable to habit and lifestyle as much as genetics or anything else.
That’s pretty common. Lots of fiber in both.
The most common reason for this is that you probably don’t eat a lot of meat. I’m not saying that you should, but if you did eat a lot of meats at every meal your body and digestion would adapt and it would no longer cause you distress, although you may be unusually sensitive as well.
Similarly, those people are unlikely to be big eaters of fruits and grains. If they were, their bodies would tend to adapt to their diet. Any changes from a habitual diet can produce GI Distress until the body gets used to it.
For the most part, the reason it means something different for them is because of their current diet and exercise regimen, which are the adjustments we’re talking about making.
The science on this isn’t very difficult or controversial, and, it’s well-documented. There are lots of different ways to “eat less and exercise more,” and one has to find one that fits into their life, but it really does boil down to those two things each and every time.
Absolutely.
Oh UGH!!
Well, once again I find it necessary to point out that I am, indeed, female. Also, pork rinds are okay. I can eat a couple of hands full of them and be satisfied (I was never a really big chip person to begin with). When I’m really craving something “chippy”, I will put two layers of paper towels on a plate, put 10 or 12 slices of pepperoni on there; 2 layers of paper towels on top; microwave on high for 40 seconds; turn the whole thing over, repeat. This way, the grease cooks out of them, and what you have left are tasty, crispy, chippy things. The only time I feel the need to make a second round of these before I’m satisfied is if my kids eat half my first round. Sometimes I use these as an alternative to crumbled bacon on my salads.
norinew, was it you who mentioned being able to eat clean carbs now? (sorry, but the thread has gotten really long!)
What is the difference between a “clean” carb and the other type of (not clean?) carb?
I’ve been doing Atkins for a couple of months (and lost about 30 pounds) and as others have mentioned, I feel great. I don’t get that mid-morning or mid-afternoon slump (from the sugar crash), my cholesterol is fine and I don’t get migraine headaches nearly as much. It was my neurologist who suggested it to me. He wanted me to cut out refined sugar. I’m eating a lot more veggies than I did before.
From other threads, I know Scylla really has a thing for “debunking” the Atkins diet, but it works for me. I’ve tried other diets, but they never worked for me. (just chiming in with the others who like Atkins)
BiblioCat, I don’t think I was the one who originally used the term “clean carbs”; as the term has been used in this thread, it means, if I understand correctly, whole grains, fruits and veggies. I do eat these things. I do not eat any refined sugar, white flour, white potatoes, corn, or white rice. I also avoid juice, canned fruits, and dried fruits. The way I understand it, if you’re talking, for instance, about fresh fruit, the fiber and other nutrients in fruit slows down the absorption of the natural sugars into your blood stream; this means you avoid the “spike” and then “drop” of sugar in the blood stream that, for me at least, sets up the path to cravings.
I have learned that you must read labels. Products that look like whole grains are often a blend of white flour and whole wheat flour, with white flour being the first ingredient. Not only does white flour spike the blood sugar quickly, it is also a nutritional waste-land, providing no nutrition other than calories.
As an interesting(To me) sidenote, I started reading this thread a few days ago, when it was a little baby thread, and now it appears to have grown out of it’s forum.
I believe this is the first time I’ve seen a thread cool off so much it’s now ready for IMHO. 
Yes, thank you to Scylla and others who redirected this thread into one in which people who battle with their weight are being supported, encouraged and educated instead of criticized. I’ve learned a lot reading it, too. Scylla, too bad G.W. Bush doesn’t have you as an advisor.
Oh, yeah, I’ve become quite the label-reading maniac. I’ve also realized the true whole-grain breads taste much better than the bland waste-land that is Wonder Bread.
Bibliocat:
Far be it from me to argue with your neurologist. Do what he says.
While I do have a thing about debunking Atkins, please notice that I’ve affirmed that it will give results in every thread that I’ve spoken about it.
I suspect that this is because the 80s taught us that meat and fat were bad. As a result we’ve become irresponsible eaters of the worst carbs in great quantities with the delusion that this is healthy. It doesn’t matter if we eat a whole bag of pretzels because they have no fat, right?
The fact is though that all that white flour is really just one step away from sugar. I can prove it. It’s so close to sugar that the enzymes in your saliva will break it down.
Try chewing a pretzel. Keep chewing it, and keep chewing it. Keep doing that and eventually it will start to taste sweet. That’s your saliva turning it into sugar.
If you ate a bag of sugar every day would you expect to lose weight? Would you expect highs and lows from blood sugar swings?
That’s the refined carb diet that a lot of people eat.
Atkins works because it swings you in the other direction. It cuts out the bad carbs, and replaces them with something not quite so bad, but by no means good.
The funny thing though is that as the Atkins diet goes through each iteration since it first became widely known in the 70s it has been gradually morphing into a more mainstream diet from a nutrition and a weight loss standpoint.
It’s still a ways off, IMO.
Ya know, i’ve had the most interesting reading of my chart at the cancer hospital.
There are pages and pages of notes on my response to food and my weight after half my stomach was removed.
In the 16 days following surgery in which I was not allowed anything by mouth, not even saliva, water, ANYTHING (IV fluids only) I lost less than a pound. I was walking the halls as much as I could, once they agreed to let me get up and walk. When the tubes were removed and I was allowed water, then bullion and other thin liquids with nutrients, my weight stayed steady.
Within 6 weeks of being able to eat anything that resembled food again, my weight returned to the predetermined level that it always goes to, and there it sat, until I got really sick again.
That’s with half a stomach, and an average caloric intake below 1,200 calories a day. Every endocrinologist in the area reviewed my case. One of them dragged up microfilm records of my original weight-loss hospitalization in the early '70s.
Basal metabolism rates as low as mine are rare. There are a couple of theories that the endocrine people would love to try out with me, and now that my kidneys are on line again, I may let them, assuming my liver’s not permanently damaged either.
I find out anything interesting, i’ll let you all know. The telling comment for me was “She has the body size of a Mercedes limo with the engine of a wind-up toy. Any fuel at all is practically more than she NEEDS.” And I thought I looked like a '92 Camry, with a big rear-end…
I wasn’t picking on you, Scylla; your name just came to mind as I was typing my post.
There is a lot of misinformation about the Atkins diet (people not knowing the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis, or thinking you eat fried eggs and bacon every day), most of it has been hashed through in this thread already.
My neurologist wanted me to cut out refined sugar. That meant soda, candy, stuff like that. I hate diet sodas, so all I drank was regular. Once I stopped drinking soda and pre-sweetened tea, and started drinking more water, my migraines lessened in severity and in the number of attacks. (We’re talking in-bed-all-day, vomiting, shivering, shaking, wishing-to-die type of migraines…not just ‘bad headaches’) Once we saw how that worked, he suggested cutting the carbs… since they’re converted into sugars. I used to live on pasta and potatoes and bread, with pretzels and chips for snacks. The first week, the cravings nearly killed me, but I made it, and I feel so much better, better than I have in years. I know we get energy from carbs, but I feel like I have more energy now than I did before. I eat lots of chicken and seafood, some red meat, and lots of veggies, mostly dark green veggies like spinach and broccoli. I usually have a huge salad for lunch; spinach or romaine with cheese and chopped bacon and sunflower seeds and a hard-cooked egg on it.
It’s like I’ve had this revalation of "This is what I’m supposed to be eating!"
Scylla
AND the mainstream nutrition and weight loss advice have been morphing in the direction of Atkins, as well: recommending fewer simple carbohydrates, more protein, more GOOD fats.
Umm. it’s been that way for a long time. I can’t recall anything of modern mainstream nutrition ever suggesting simple carbs, protein has always been a mainstream necessity, and as for fats, lean meats, fish oil, olive oil and such are also a staple.
Look at Weight Watchers for example. Look at the nutritionally excellent (if somewhat lame) “Deal a Meal” by Richard Simmons.
You may be confusing mainstream nutrition and weight loss with the trends of popular fad diets.
No, Scylla, I’m referring to the recent, major re-vamping of the “Food Pyramid” nutritional recommendations. And new recommendations that have come from the Harvard School of Medicine. They used to recommend much higher levels of carbs in the diet and very little fats. Much of the new info. is about good fats.
No, Scylla, I’m referring to the recent, major re-vamping of the “Food Pyramid” nutritional recommendations. And new recommendations that have come from the Harvard School of Medicine. They used to recommend much higher levels of carbs in the diet and very little fats. Much of the new info. is about good fats. The new research findings is what got me to take another look at lower-carb diets - not necessarily Atkins, per se - after dismissing the idea before as a crock.
This is from the
“(Society for Women’s Health Research) – New research suggests that the highly controversial and often criticized Atkins diet may prove to be a viable option for people struggling with obesity.
Two new studies in the May 22, 2003 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine reveal that patients on a low-carbohydrate diet lost more weight than those on traditional diet plans. The first study conducted by Gary Foster, PhD and colleagues set out to determine the efficacy of a low-carbohydrate diet and the second study by Frederick Samaha, MD and colleagues compared a low-carbohydrate diet with a low-fat diet in obese individuals. The Foster, et al. study even suggested that people on a low-carbohydrate, high-protein and high-fat diet, the cornerstone of the Atkins diet, showed improvement in some risk factors for heart disease.”
(http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/333/21142/365644.html?d=dmtICNNews Not a big study, but interesting)
“From Harvard University, 2002: A team of researchers from the Department of Nutrition at Harvard University conducted a study involving over 105,000 men and women in which they compared the effects of the USDA food pyramid’s on health with the health effects of the food pyramid developed at Harvard. The researchers found that the Harvard pyramid (which is lower carbohydrate, higher in fat and protein)lowered the risk of disease, especially heart disease by half.”
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press11212002.html
“From Scientific American, 2002: This statement from Harvard University professors Willett and Stampfer is a must-read. Whether or not you are well-versed in Harvard’s opposition to the USDA’s food pyramid, this statement is well worth your time. It is a comprehensive, yet condensed statement of their criticisms of the USDA food pyramid. It begins with a very good summary of how the recommendations for low-fat, high-carb diets evolved – including the flaws in the thinking of those who started the movement. They strongly condemn the USDA and nutrition community for failing to recognize the negative health affects of carbohydrate, particularly high high glycemic index/glycemic load carbohydrate and for failing to recognize that fats are healthly. They also go into some detail about their proposed food pyramid.”
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=0007C5B6-7152-1DF6-9733809EC588EEDF
Consuming more protein, fewer carbohydrates may be healthier
Jim Barlow, Life Sciences Editor
(217) 333-5802; b-james3@uiuc.edu
4/1/2001
CHAMPAIGN, Ill. — New research suggests a diet higher in protein and lower in carbohydrates than currently recommended may help people maintain desirable body weight and overall health.
For 30 years fad diets and various nutritional recommendations have come and gone, said Donald Layman, a professor of nutritional sciences at the University of Illinois. The result: Americans take in more calories than ever, obesity is at an all-time high, and heart disease rates equal those of the 1970s."
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/01/04diet.html
(That one found better results with those eating higher protein and less carbs, but not Atkins-level low)
Here’s part of an interview with Dr. Willett from Harvard:
He wrote a book “Eat, Drink and Be Healthy” that I’d like to get. Unlike Atkins who recommends a very low carb diet, Willett suggests fewer carbs than the USDA pyramid and substituting complex and high fiber carbs for refined and simple carbohydrates.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/community/DailyNews/chat_willett020109.html