That observation carries more weight than you can possibly know, Sunspace, and I wish you had convinced me of this at age 14. The myth that we women latch onto in early teens is that the right cosmetics, haircut, manicure, and clothing can create a desirable woman. It took a couple years out of high school before I slacked off from the primping and fretting over my appearance, and many more years before I began to mourn the absence of freckles, scars, and eyebrows in other young women. I see 19 year olds sporting so many products that they are practically camouflaged, and that is an appropriate word because by the time the all the trends have been applied, sprayed, glued, and pushed up, one girl looks like the next.
Funny isn’t it? Art that art and artifice is meant to attract; not* repel*. I totally understand all the love for natural girls, and agree that they give the appearance of being much more approachable and friendly.
(Disclaimer: I love funky hair styles , Kool-aid color, dreads and such- those chicks make *self-expression * a high art, and they look fun and approachable, too.)
ETA: I missed sjc’s input while typing, but I second that post in its entirety.
Indeed. But interpersonal communications are fraught with difficulties - difficulties that we spend our childhood learning about. By the time we are adults, we should be able to deal with unwanted advances.
But it’s not so easy, though. I was lousy (at college) at dealing with that sort of thing, and I’m not exactly Johnny Depp. Maybe if I was it would be easier. I hurt some women in the process of rejecting them, because I wasn’t used to having to do so.
Edit - not your approach. Oops. Read the damn thread, Paul. Your approach, and that of the OP, seemed elegant and compassionate. Of course, I personally was more often the victim of rejection, but I’ll leave the minor-key violins for another day
And, unfortunately, a lot of women never get beyond that. Also true, however, is that looking cute, with the trends appliced sprayed, glued and pushed up, will attract teenage boys, which is a time in our life when most people develop our self confidence (or lack there off) around our target audience, so it often is a reinforcement of an unrealistic look at adult life.
There’s a saying that goes around amoung guys which is that you can take the most beautiful woman in the world, and someone is tired of fucking her. Beauty and clothes et al, will attract, but it’s not enough to sustain interest if that is all there is.
A good friend of mine, who I used to go meet women with, and I were talking about this a couple of years ago. We had both spent a good amount of time dating a lot of women, he was single and I had been separated for a number of years, and we took advantage of the situation. We met, dated, and slept with lots of women, (sometimes the last two overlapped, but not necessarily).
We looked at what things attracted us, what things we did which worked and which didn’t. I met women in bars, in stores, in parks and on the train. You learn how to be friendly, without being overbearing. How to sound natural when stricking up a conversation with people. How to feel and project confidence without bragging and without being pushy.
Hitting on women should always make them feel attractive. Now that I’m married and off the market, I no longer look, but I still feel good when a women sends a signal that she wouldn’t mind if I wandered over and talked to her. Never do, but it’s nice to feel attractive, and that’s why a skillfull approach isn’t a bad thing.
If you get the vibe that they’re not interested in talking to you then you drop it immediately. I’ve walked away from far more women than I’ve gotten phone numbers. In bars, most, but not all women are there looking to meet someone, so you have the assumption that you can approach a women and then be judged on your merits. You see guys who act offended if a woman isn’t interested, but that’s just stupid. Guys only approach women they want to and women have the same right to not talk to men they don’t want to.
Outside of singles bars, parties, etc., then you never know if a woman is looking or not. The majority of women are attached or married, so you have to take the approach that they probably aren’t looking, but you see if you are. This is why approaches should be done as described in the OP; always make the women in charge if she wants to continue the conversation, give her name or phone number.
The creepy feeling should never be there; if you don’t know how to approach women then learn, for chrissake.
Beau, I thought that was a swell, sweet story, with a nice encouragement to guys who are wondering about seeking companionship, in whatever means.
The term “hitting on” is really gross, gotta say. “Pickup” ain’t much better. “Flirting” seems to fit the bill here. TokyoPlayer, I’ll direct this at you, since I’ve seen you have posts of amazing emotional depth here in the past couple of years, from your life travails.(And, add that I hope all is going well with you now)
So, in light of your maturation beyond your “Pickup-Hitting On” days, do you see flirtation as not so much a score, but softened to an encounter like Beaucarnea had?
To me, what Beau was saying is that a sweet and decent encounter, even in disheveled state at a dump, can have good heart, and , though,not in her case, as attached, still be a nice meeting.
Ouch. OK, I’ll pled guilty to not using the best of term, but since that what was used in the OP, then I’ll throw myself on the mercy of the court and pray for a lenient sentence. The Japanese term nampa doesn’t have as negative connotations, I guess. And thank you for asking. I’m doing better these day, I’ll post about it pretty soon.
I went through a phase of looking to meet women who were willing to have sex with me that night. It’s not terribly difficult in this town, (in D&D terms, it’s like adding a +2 to your height and a +3 in charisma) and probably because of my sale experience, I got pretty good at it. I also never lied or misrepresented myself (not to say that I didn’t throw in a tall tale or two, all in the name of entertainment) and I also backed away if I thought that the woman wasn’t understanding the situation. (I do the same professionally as well. I’ll tell clients that they don’t need an expensive solution from us.)
I had been quite a geek in high school and had zero self-confidence around women, so part of it was proving to myself that I could pick up attractive women (for want of a better term, flirting doesn’t seem to cut it here). After a while then I started to see how much more I wanted a real relationship.
After I started looking for a serious relationship, then I would agree that it was flirting, since the situation had changed. First, my new goal was to find someone I was genuinely interested in, and not just to “close a deal” ('cuz in all honesty, there’s a different standard for a one-night stand, which I’m sure is what the women felt as well) then flirting is a great way of finding out if you have more in common than you like pretty women and she’s a pretty woman.
Meeting women and flirting is fun, and should make both parties happy. It’s also an art which a lot of people, of both sexes, don’t understand. For the guy, you have to create a safe environment where the woman feels comfortable and knows she can decline at any time. (Note that declining does not need to be a “no.” If it requires a flat out “no” then you’re usually back into creepy territory.) It annoys me seeing guys coming on too hard.
I’d agree that the message her was that she met someone and was flattered that even in her less-than-best state, that the guy showed interested, but he handled it like a gentleman. Had she been looking for a guy, it would have made a great start. It’s also a testament to the fact that people like feeling attractive and that is not a bad thing, even for married folks. I’d draw the line well before actively seeking out company on “the cheetin’ side of town,” but see no sin in feeling good that a man asked to see her again.
Auto, The Master was good. What wisdom – when you pull up a chair next to a woman at a coffee shop, pull your table away slightly to give breathing space – then I picked up others on my own (watch the speed of a woman walking through a room at a party, if she walks slowly and then speeds up as she leaves to go into the next room, she’s looking). You can learn on your own, grasshopper. Just be observant.
Beaucarnea, how like you to carry cat food just in case!
The strangest and funniest pickup line ever used on me is still memorable after 35 years. I was in a Scandanavian country and became involved in a side conversation with a goldsmith in the lobby of a hotel. Eventually he asked me if I would like to see his jewels.
I met a man at the recycling center once. Alas, I was married and he was married and I had trash juice on my hand when he shook it. He’s now the Governor of Tennessee! Ha!
Hmm. I wonder if Scott is still down in the dumps…
