I’m not defending you, spectrum, I am pointing out how stupid you look.
So have several other posters. The general consensus is that every time you open your mouth, you set the cause of gay rights back another six months.
I keep thinking of Corky in Waiting for Guffman. “Give me what I want, right now, or I’ll pitch a great big hissy fit - and THEN won’t you feel bad!”
Tip for the future - when people point at you and laugh, they have not been swayed to your position.
Regards,
Shodan
This is nothing like the general consensus. The general consensus, near as I can tell, is that spectrum does a piss-poor job advancing a usually worthy cause, but nobody except you is suggesting that people are stupid enough to equate him with the cause.
Daniel
I’m a member of the other population subjected to involuntary electrocution of the brain, being defined as “sick”, subjected to determined efforts to “cure” us with or without our consent, described as a menace to decent citizens, etc.
I can certainly relate to the fury, as well as being tired of having to rehash the same basic “we’re people and we really should be accorded the same rights as other people” fundamentals over and over and over and over again.
I do think Jimmy Chitwood is fundamentally right, though. I learned a long time ago that being patient and being courteous, making your point and yet listening, even to stuff that infuriates you, finding strands within it that you can acknowledge as reasonable and separating them from the specifically offensive parts and explaining why they are offensive, rather than branding the other person(s) as a hatefully discriminatory categorical oppressor committing social injustices by even voicing such thoughts.
It’s not just the person you’re squaring off with — it’s the audience. You may never reach the one who insists that there’s something wrong with you or, worse, that you deserve certain (mis)treatments, but if, to the others tuning in and watching from the sidelines, you’re the one keeping your cool and considering various perspectives while the other person is frothing at the mouth and hurling condemnations and defending aggressive, violent, or invasive responses to your existence, you may reach many of them.
The cultural left, at some point, appears to have adopted an attitude of “we aren’t going there again and discussing that subject yet again, it’s oppressive to force us to make the same basic points over and over again; if you haven’t been living under a rock in a cave at the bottom of the ocean you know you’re wrong and you know why you’re wrong and you know it’s already been established that you’re wrong”. Unfortunately, they’re wrong 
As long as the folks we’re coming into contact with are not the very same individuals with whom we’ve already had these reiterative regurgitative discussions over and over again, yeah we do have to go there again, because they haven’t been exposed to our perspectives yet, and because “you’re not merely wrong, you’re an evil person for not already knowing how wrong you are” just isn’t a very compelling argument. Even for something we really thought we’d succeeded in making mainstream cultural canonical truth, like what racism is and why it is evil and wrong, it’s sometimes necessary to start over and explain it all once again.
Don’t bother, Daniel. Shodan is a festering pile of shit. If I was walking down the street and saw him coming, I wouldn’t cross the road. I’d leave the town.
/me wrote:
… is at least as good an idea as finishing one’s overly-long run-on sentences. :o
Spectrum’s throwing another temper tantrum, folks. My toddlers do this sometimes, too.
Best thing to do is just to ignore him, and pretty soon he’ll be done sobbing and kicking on the floor.
First, don’t give anyone such satisfaction ;). Don’t let 'em control what you do nohow.
But second, as you know, I got real problems with the way you debate issues, too, so obviously I’m not going to be taking advice from you on this. You never did apologize to me for the hateful things you said about me when I defended the free speech of someone I found repulsive.
And your recent statement, that electroshock therapy=KKK=Holocaust, demonstrated a total lack of perspective.
I imagine that the following scene wouldn’t quite play out the way you think it would:
KKK #1: Get out here, boy! We’re gonna lynch you!
Black man: Ah, shit.
KKK #2: Tell you what, we’ll give you a choice. You can be murdered right now, or we can send you to “reparative therapy,” where you’ll get painful shocks until you turn white. You can quit the therapy whenever you want, but we’ll mock you and pressure you into not quitting. Which is it: getting lynched, or getting pressured into stupid and painful therapy?
Black Man: I can’t decide! They’re both exactly the same!
Nor do I imagine a similar scene in a concentration camp would’ve played out the way you think it would’ve.
Yes, reparative therapy is stupid and awful. Yes, it’s stupider and awfuller than the Jerry Springer Show. But it’s nowhere near as horrible as the KKK or the Holocaust, and it’s insulting to imply otherwise.
This is the lack of perspective that I’m talking about. Add some nuance to your diet, and your positions will improve immeasurably.
Daniel
Spectrum, your immature hissy fits aren’t helping. Look at Sol Grundy’s posts–forceful, well-reasoned, and compelling. You could learn from his writing style.
Shodan, shame on you. Human rights are not granted based on popularity, but on the intrinsic rights of human beings to live their lives in freedom and equality.
What you should answer is “that it’s not the way God made *me * to be.” Because in the final analysis, you are the only person for whom you can speak with any authority. I suspect that anyone you meet is exactly the person whom God designed them to be; and I would be very cautious about gainsaying the designs of your creator.
What is infuriating about you bodswood, is that you refuse to commit. Throughout this thread, you try to have it both ways: “I don’t accept homosexuals, I think they’re icky, but I’m a Christian who’s trying to love you anyway, so I should get a pass” (I know I’m paraphrasing, but I think I’ve got the gist down pretty well). You’re like that other infuriating group I remember reading about: “I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm – netiher hot nor cold – I am about to spit you out of my mouth.”
You can’t have it both ways, sir. Some things are too fundamental to waffle about.
Finally, let me add my thanks to matt_mcl and SolGrundy. I wish I had your abilities to impart such emotional and logical impact with such economy of words.
I agree with you.
The problem is that spectrum is doing everything in his power to get everyone to forget it.
It may not be correct to say, “An sickeningly immature drama queen doesn’t deserve to have his argument taken seriously”, but the longer spectrum posts, the more inevitable it becomes.
Martin Luther King accomplished a lot. Malcolm X relatively less. Al Sharpton, nothing at all - just the opposite. Same here. spectrum’s mouthings do no good and some harm. It is difficult to treat someone as an adult if they cannot behave like one. And therefore the argument that they should be granted the rights of an adult is that much harder to support.
Does anyone in the this thread disagree that spectrum is given to bouts of distasteful spew? Hell, does anyone on the SDMB disagree that he brings discredit to his cause?
I sure as hell haven’t heard anyone say so.
Feel free to disagree. Then check back to the thread in a page or two to see spectrum do his best to embarass you and everyone who disagrees with him. On any topic, even the slightest.
Regards,
Shodan
I wouldn’t really expect you to.
I’m sorry, I don’t recall this incident.
I disagree. Forcing someone to live a life of torture and hell, a life in the closet, is just as bad as killing them. Seeing as it’s torture that lasts years and years, I find it comparable. And to try to wipe out all gay people by forcing us all back into the closet, which is the end goal of the Reparative abuse movement, is genocide as far as I concerned: the deliberate and orchestrated elimination of an entire subset of humanity.
I don’t believe for a moment that if reparative therapy is accepted by the government, the medical establishment and the public, that it will remain optional for long. The gay haters in this world will do anything, absolutely anything, to eliminate every homosexual from this planet.
I’m probably being extremely stupid, but… what population is this?
What I don’t understand is why spectrum insists on completely ignoring other, more reasonable homosexuals, like SolGrundy and matt_mcl, who are telling him that every time he opens his mouth, he probably drives one more person away from supporting gay rights.
Seriously, just about every openly gay person on this board has told spectrum that his whiny tantrums accomplish nothing for gays and probably do more harm than good, and he has not once, in this thread or even on this board that I’ve seen, not once has he even acknowledged this might be the case. I’m starting to wonder if maybe some homophobe has registered here and is trying to make homosexuals look bad.
Private schools-yes. I myself attended a Catholic parochial school.
Public? No. Unless it’s in history, and you’re discussing the history of certain religions, or certain events (for example, the Crusades). Or in literature, with references.
But I absolutely do not think that ANY ONE should be preaching ANY religion in a public school.
That’s circular. The Bible says it’s wrong because it’s unnatural and it’s unnatural because the Bible says so.
Natural and unnatural are not about good and bad. Again, snake venom is “natural.” Does that mean it’s good? (And I am so NOT equating homosexuality to snake venom, so don’t EVEN go there. Just pointing out the flaws in the whole “natural/unnatural” argument).
Excalibre:
If it ever does, please be sure and take pictures. Thank you. 
I think I’ve done the Biblical Position. Maybe I’m just not flexible, but to me, it’s way too much work. Totally overrated - it’s supposed to be sex, not gymnastics, right?
And by the way, spectrum, you are really fucking pathetic. Grow the fuck up, stop being such a goddamn drama queen, and get over your little persecution complex. I don’t know what you’ve gone through, and I don’t really care, because none of it gives you the right to be such a complete and total asshole to everyone else. Call me a “festering pile of shit” if you like; I don’t care. Some of us queers don’t feel the need to try to scream until everyone in earshot is suffering for every slight we imagine has been visited upon us.
What a fucking ironic username, too, given how purely black-and-white your worldview is. I guess there is some truth to what the rightwing folks say about leftwing agitators.
Not fair. I don’t like hearing straight folks talk about how us queers need to be good examples. It’s one thing to point out that spectrum is a worthless idiot, but it’s another thing to dole out pats on the head to the queers you think are doing a good job. I don’t accept any responsibility as a representative for queerkind and I resent any effort to assign any of us that responsibility. Not only is it not fair to us on an individual level, but the implication is that if we’re really nice, people will catch on and start treating us like human beings. No one is “nice” enough to earn the respect of the straight bigots out there, and it wouldn’t be our responsibility to do it anyway.
Don’t worry. There’ll be pictures. Spread far and wide.
Do you get pitted so often that you forget it? Maybe I should’ve linked to it earlier in this thread. Oh, wait. Anyway, here’s that link again.
You missed the part, I presume, in which adults may opt out of it. I agree that it’s horrifying for kids; but as soon as they’re adults, they may opt out of it, an option which the victims of the rope or the gas chamber were not allowed. Your comparison is grossly inaccurate.
Sure, and the gay haters don’t believe for a moment that if “Sarah Has Two Daddies” is allowed in the classroom, that mandatory gay sex in the classroom can be far behind, because they believe that the gays will do anything, absolutely anything, to tear down the nuclear family. The fact that your own imagination is as insanely overactive as the imagination of many homophobes doesn’t mean that your cause is unjust; it just means that you’ve got zero credibility on the issue.
It’s not that you’re a spokesperson for a bad cause: it’s that you’re a bad spokesperson for a good cause. A little nuance in your diet will go a long way.
Daniel
Damn good point.
I’m sorry, I didn’t see the link. I generally don’t read pit threads that are “about” me. There haven’t been many, so I guess I can’t say “generally.” But I see little good that can come of watching people dog pile on me.
I’m sorry for the way I spoke to and of you in that thread, and the thread it refrenced. I was unfair to you, and treated you very poorly.
The reparative movement is led by people whose goal in life is the eradication of homosexuality. They want it criminalized and eliminated. Why should I think they, were they ever to come to power, would offer an opt out?
There is no depths of evil to which the supporters of reparative torture won’t sink. They electro-shock innocent people. They torture children, for fuck’s sake. What sort of sick, twisted monster tortures children?
Oh, that’s right. Fundamentalist Christians and their pals.
spectrum-ever heard of the phrase, “Do not attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance?”
Sometimes, all these people are is ignorant. They’re not evil, they just don’t know any better.
Don’t know any better than to torture children? Then they are unfit parents whose children should be taken away.