Found this article from PlanetOut (I’ll quote the relevant passages):
OK, ask the guy not to come if he doesn’t exemplify your beliefs (much as I may disagree with them) - obviously the guy could better spend his time at a zillion other places who would happily have his help at Thanksgiving. But then changing your mind - was it a true realization that’s not what Jesus Would Do, or caving in to bad PR? Sounds like the latter to me.
Thoughts?
Esprix
PR, definitely.
I hope Kolbe told them where to put their stuffing.
Before reading “spineless” in there, I’m going to offer an alternative theory…
It is perfectly legal to shoot ones self in the foot, no matter what the religous/lack thereof persuasion. As I see it, one faction (there are zillions) approved the letter and wrote it, only to find out (via public and probably private ‘beatings’) that it was indeed the wrong thing to say. So they apologise, and ask for forgiveness. The latter is proper procedure.
It is something you always have to watch out for: extremism usually leads to intolerance and inconsiderate behavior. Fundamental Christians have to be espically careful, because Christ spent a lot of time trying to impress the need for proper behavior, and zeal to carry out the word of God to the “letter” seems to lead to extremism.
So yeah, case of foot in mouth disease there. It happens to everyone. 
If the Congressman had been a member of the Ku Klux Klan, should things have been done differently?
I agree with Saint Zero.
Spineless may not be the correct term. They hate gay people, and put out a letter stating such. Hypocritical sleazebags may be a better description. “We want to help everybody (except that guy).” “Love thy neighbour (not like THAT).”
The fact that they rolled in the end just shows how low they are. In a weird way, I would actually have a modicum of respect for them if they held their ground. You know, like the Boy Scouts (goodbye United Way contribution).
It’s time to start a new national trend. In all things gay, we need to ask ourselves “What Would Esprix Do?” Just think, WWED bumber stickers, t-shirts, coffee mugs. The mind reels 
Saint Zero, that’s my point - they seem to be arguing they somehow gave the wrong impression, but I don’t buy it. Sounds to me more that they caved in to bad press, not actually saying, “Hey, you know what? That was very un-Christian of us.” If he had any chutzpah he’d just as politely decline returning.
Shodan, no - if the KKK doesn’t jive with their beliefs, then it would have been fine to ask someone not to participate in their events, but if there were some kind of public outcry (which I highly doubt, as most folks wouldn’t stand up and support the KKK), I would still call them weasels for caving in and reinviting them.
pcubed, I would also have had a lot more respect for them if they’d held their ground, which is kind of my point - as I said, I really don’t believe this was some kind of spiritual awakening. As you said, at least the BSA is sticking to their guns (again, as misguided and wrong I think they are, the USSC has given them the right to be so).
And since we already have a thread on “What Would John Corrado Do?”, seems only just to say, “What Would Esprix Do?” 
(Of course, you could always just revive my slowly-gasping-for-air ATGG threads.)
Esprix
Speaking of shooting oneself in the foot, since you’ve been here much longer than I have, I’m going to pull the trigger anyhow: Esprix, you’re pretty well a one-trick pony, aren’t you?
Do you have any other interests besides your homosexuality? Don’t get me wrong; I’m an extremely liberal Liberal Arts major, but most of the gays I know can converse outside their own sexual preference. In the time I’ve spent here, I can’t remember (without doing a search) a time when a single one of your posts didn’t have to do with your sexuality or “Planet Out”'s latest outrage against gays.
Really, I’m not trying to hijack or to turn this into a pit thread, but don’t you have any other interests?
Currently discussing gun control, the elections, haiku, hate, the holidays, California, racism, circumcision (but then again, who isn’t?), grammar, the Virginia Dopefest, Star Trek, PC speech, my grandmother’s cat, and several gay-related topics, both direct and indirect.
It’s tough being the Gay Guy.
Esprix
What in the hell is this country coming to when a VOLUNTEER is turned away because he just so happens to be gay. I guess that whole passage in those Catholic people’s Bibles about loving your neighbor as yourself only applies when it’s convienient.
and
I gotta tell you, I think that’s complete bullshit. I wouldn’t go so far as to congratulate this “Rescue Mission” for their humility because it’s just as likely it was a PR move, but why would they deserve any credit for sticking by what any sane adult could see was the wrong decision? It didn’t even make any sense from the perspective of being a Christian.
Since when was brazen stupidity and pig-headed stubbornness a positive trait? If they’d stuck to their guns they would have been vigourously defending sheer idiocy and hypocrisy. I don’t see anything to defend there. I could defend them if they were RIGHT, or even if they thought they were right, but they jumped the gun and screwed up and they knew it.
Apologizing was the right thing. When you’re a grownup and you do something wrong, and you know it, you stand up like an adult and you say you’re sorry, even if you have to do it grudgingly. For what it’s worth, it’s also the Christian thing to do, not that these people strike me as being very good Christians.
“Holding your ground” when you know you’re wrong is what a child does when they’re whiny and don’t want to share the new toy.
Esprix wrote:
So, Kirk or Picard?
But in what sense did they admit that they’re wrong? Was it in the sense of “Guys, I’ve thought this over, and what we did was not in keeping with the spirit of Christ’s teachings. Let’s apologize and try to make amends,” or was it more “Oh, shit, this is starting to eat into our revenues. Damage control!” Will they start publicly recanting all of their earlier anti-gay pronouncements, or will this be the last we hear of their new-found tolerance? They may know that they’re wrong, but was the “wrong” part that they turned someone away for being gay, or that they created bad publicity and lost potential donations?
Another question to ask: had it been some ordinary schmoe who had been turned away for being gay, and not a well-known (and well-liked, judging by his overwhelming reelection) public figure with the ability to influence public opinion, would the mission folks have changed their minds? If the answer is no, then these guys are not just bigots, they’re whores as well.
Of course, I can’t know their true intentions. If in fact they reversed their opinions because a sincere change of heart, then I applaud them.
–sublight.
Semi off, but have you read about the Rev. Fred Phelps? That one is a nutter with regards to not only his beliefs regarding homosexuality, but also many other things…I believe he is the one who owns godhatesfags.com …
If you’re interested, (and mods, this is publicly available information that the owners of said domain supplied on their own. Edit it if you find it inappropriate, though) that particularly nasty domain is owned by:
Phelps, Benjamin
Westboro Baptist Church
P.O. Box 1886
Topeka, KS 66601 US
Makes you sick, doesn’t it?
We’ve posted links to that particular a-hole before. I can’t think of a way to continue this conversation without transfering it to either the BBQ Pit or Great Debates.
What do you think, Esprix?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RickJay *
**
Sublight pretty much said what I wanted to (thanks SL), but I felt a need to respond anyway.
Do I agree with these morons? Of course not.
Do I think that they have a right to believe and say what they want? YES.
I’m a strong believer in that Voltaire quote and the 1st amendment. If you truly believe that homosexuality is wrong, enough so that you take the first step of banning a gay politician from helping you feed the homeless, fine. Don’t expect a donation from me, but you are entitled to your beliefs. However, if you roll over at the first sign of public outcry (and the important point here is that I do think it was purely damage control, not a change of heart), then you are not only a bigot, but a hypocritical bigot as well.
As much as I disagree with what the Boy Scouts are doing, they at least are consistent. They are not pandering to public opinion, despite the potential financial risks.
Do they deserve an award for this? Of course not. But I will grant them a little respect for being honest.
What does that have to do with it? Nobody’s disputing they have the right to do as they please, even if what they please is dumb. This is a non-sequitur.
Could be; it seemed like damage control to me as well. But don’t expect me for a damned instant to respect somebody for sticking by an imbecilic decision. They have the right to make that decision, and I have the right to think they’re a pack of contempible idiots.
The apology as worded is more sincere than most apologies I’ve read of that sort, and in my experience, most organizations, rather than saying “We were wrong,” would try to weasel out of it with some kind of spin. In this case I think the apology might have been more sincere than usual, but we don’t know for sure. Either way, I am willing to accept a person’s apology at face value, because I expect that of people. You screw up, you say you’re sorry.
I’m stil wondering if stofsky read my reply.
RickJay, excellent points, but, as Sublight pointed out, my original question was whether or not their change of heart was sincere. I think without the backlash they wouldn’t have changed their minds. If they’d stuck by their original stance, as wrong-minded as it was, at least they’d have been being honest about what they really thought; as it is, we’re questioning their truthfulness in this matter. What deserves more respect? But you’re very right - you screw up, you say you’re sorry, and that’s the right thing to do (although, of course, that doesn’t mean we necessarily have to forgive them, either).
tracer, depends on if we’re talking Jem’hadar or Romulans.
Saturn, we’re all too well aware of his particular rabid brand of homophobia. I even got to see his merry band at the Millenium March on Washington this past April (we all told him how much we loved him). Quite disturbing.
slythe, your call. Of course if it moves to Great Debates I wouldn’t want anyone to accuse me of being a “one-trick pony.” :rolleyes:
Esprix
Hey dumb ass:
The above shelter is not run by Catholics…I guess lumping all Christians together is cool when it’s “convenient”
I see they’ve addressed my other concern already: the OP seems to be saying that people can’t apologise for a stupid idea once it’s stated. Which is a stupid idea. We all make mistakes, and the adult thing is to apologise for it if it turns out we were making a mistake. They did.