Star Wars Fans: give it a rest

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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There are currently several threads going in IMHO about Star Trek vs Star Wars, and as usual, several things strike me about the SW fans.

#1. You cheat. I have heard grandiose claims made over and over again about how “An ISD can do this” or “such and so is available to the Empire”, etc… SPOOFE stated flat out that there were over 25,000 ISDs. I contest: Prove it. Where have we seen 25,000 ISDs? The usual response…“well, uh…see, in this book” BUZZZZ, sorry, dosen’t count. Y’all refuse to admit that you have a grand total of maybe 7 hours of screen time to base your arguements on verses 10 movies, 4 complete and one ongoing series. Sorry, books don’t count. It’s not my fault that you chose to agrue from such a limited base of available material, you don’t get to make stuff up. If you wanna admit books, fine, I can show you Nova bombs, pan galactic, even extra universial travel and many other things never dreamed of in the SW universe if it’s acceptable to use literary fiction based on the series.

#2 SW is less technically advanced than ST. And that’s OK! It dosen’t say anything about the merits of SW as a whole. The Monitor was a technological marvel for her day, but she wouldn’t stand a chance against a modern naval ship. It doesn’t demean the Monitor in the least to say that. Transporters are the best examle of that here. Transporters would easily tilt the odds in favor of ships from the ST universe, so SW fans whine and make up all kinds of stuff to negate them. “ISD’s shields would deflect them!” “Ok, where does it show that” “Umm, In a book!” See point 1. Name me one time in Episodes 1, 4, 5 or 6 where the technical details of shielding was discussed. The atitude here seems to be “It has to be, otherwise we’d have to admit that the Enterprise could easily win!” Thus things like “hyperlight hops” are invented.

#3 SW isn’t really a science fiction series. Sure, it’s set "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away " but what it really is is a western. It’s the guys in white hats saving the town from the evil cattle baron. As such, it’s wonderful entertainment, but it’s just not very deep. ST, for all of it’s myriad faults, and it’s got 'em, is frequently deep. “Let This be Your Last Battlefield” is an examination of the folly of racism. You may argue about how well it was pulled off, but it is at least an attempt to examine deeper issues within the context of a science fiction story. All ST series have at least several of these type of episodes each season.

Finally, I just don’t understand why SW fans have such a hard time admitting that SW isn’t the end all be all of everything Sci-fi. It’s like they take it as a personal insult to admit that the technology, as shown on screen, is superior in ST. Objectively, it is, there is no question. You may like one better than the other, but so what? Storytelling wise, SW prolly has a slight edge on ST. ( I would have said definitely, but Ep I kinda evened things up :wink: ) About 75% of both SW and ST is fun, exciting, diverting entertainment. About 25% is crap. “Saving Private Ryan” and “Platoon” are both excellent movies, but which platoon would win in a firefight, Tom Hank’s or Tom Berringer’s? I think that the Vietnam platoon would win, but that’s just cuz they have better equipment. That dosen’t say anything bad about SPR at all. Why is that so hard?

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You shoulda posted this in the pit :stuck_out_tongue:

#1 Both sides cheat. What’s all this nonsense about ST ships being able to engage non-warp ships at warp. they never do that. They get right next to the other ship and blast away. An ISD eats anything the Feds have at this tactic. In the movies, Fed ships are usually firing one weapon at a time while an ISD fires hundreds.

#2 If ST is technologically superior why do their ships take so long to cross the Galaxy compared to the ships in SW?

#3 I guess it depends on your definition of science fiction. To hardcore scientists, the “science” part of both is so bad as to disqualify each. I classify both as science fiction. If I get into trouble on this, I’ll just change the topic to Babylon 5.

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I agree.

I am a SW fan tried and true. I don’t like ST in the least… I find it cheesy and far too idealistic of the future (plus all aliens are rendered as homo-sapeins-esque.

However, aside from my aversion to all things Trek (mainly because of the fans i have had the dubious pleasure to know)I do not believe that SW is the be all and end all of sci-fi.

I enjoy SW as much as i enjoy the Dune novels… or good Cyberpunk stuff.

People who argue that SW or ST are the most powerfull, etc etc etc need to really step outside and feel the warmth of the bright burning day star we call “the sun” once and a while.

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First off, SW isn’t Science Fiction, it’s “Science Fantacy” (Same with ST)

Second, in regards to the number of ISD, it all depends on where the info comes from and if they are cannon sources. For SW, its a pecking order: Movies, Radio Dramas, Books. For ST, it’s Movies/TV show…and that’s it. Deal with it. (It’s not our fault Paramount has said that no ST books can be considered cannon.)

Third, How do you know that the Feds are more technically advanced? Because it ‘looks’ like they are? Since when does something’s appearance determine it’s technological ability?

Transporters may bean example of technological advancement, but it only begs the question of their ethics. It’s basically a cloning machine. Now this may seem ‘really advanced’ think of the ethical ramifications of this. But since the Fed seems to be quite the Communist regime, I’m not surprised that they have managed to get their people to blindly accept this technology.

Fourth:ST is a very racist show at the core. It doesn’t affect any races on our planet, but the racist philosophy is there.

I agree that both sides can cheat, but that is because there are people on both sides that can’t stick to a particular type of argument. If you are going to try to apply real science to both, then stick to that. (It’s also a good idea to actually know what you are taking about when it comes to applied science… and not just make things up.)

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[sub] Man…I really “geeked” myself out. :D[/sub]

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AND HOW!! :eek:

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Both sides are wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone knows The Jetsons spacecraft and technology were vastly superior. And all their ships folded up into neat little briefcases. Top that Federation and Empire!

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No way! The original Flash Gordon serials had the technological edge. They made anti-aircraft rayguns out of ordinary Klieg lights!

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Lucas himself has said the books are CANON. Hah.
Star Wars rules…and Star Trek dools. 'Nuff said.

:stuck_out_tongue:

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And all y’all drools.

Fools.

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Fine. Fit what happened in “Splinter of the Mind’s Eye” into the storyline, please. That’s the problem with having books be cannon. They contradict themselves and the shows.

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On ST, they at least attempt to explain how the technology is supposed to work. But can anyone tell me how the Millennium Falcon’s hyperdrive is supposed to work?

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R2D2 slowly hovers a tiny screwdriver inside a panel full of wires until it turns blue.

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You’re right, they try. Unfortunatly, they make up and break so many laws of science and physics that it is laughable to anyone with a minute knowledge of the subject area. And don’t give me this, “well, it’s in the future, so our physics laws don’t apply” bull-sh*t. We still obey all the laws of physics that medievel persons did, and the Trek universe has to as well.

Now, I’m not saying that none of the technology in the Trek universe in impossible, warp drive, for one, is actually one of the most plausible, or do I’ve heard. But transporters and replicators? Give me a break, nothing but cheap plot devices and loop-holes.

(and just WTF is anti-time? Hmm? Sheesh.)

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The DMV.

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Okay. Star Wars Encyclopedia, page 284:

According the George Lucas himself, the level of canonity proceeds as follows:

  1. Movies.
  2. Novelisations of the movies.
  3. Novels and source books.
  4. Just about everything else.

Now, that’s the simplified version. However, as long as something doesn’t specifically contradict the movies, they are accurate. And the movies did NOT specifically state that the Empire did NOT have 25,000 ISD’s built.

Actually, we always admit that. In fact, I’m almost always the FIRST person to admit that. HOWEVER, it’s because of that fact that the novels and sourcebooks are far more important, otherwise we haven’t the foggiest idea how powerful things in the SW universe are.

Except the ST books aren’t canon. They’re not even considered “official”. Paramount has said as such.

Conversely, the SW books ARE canon (except where they contradict the movies, radio shows, or novelisations). Lucas has said as such.

There’s the difference.

I don’t see how you figure. Sure, ST is shinier and prettier, but that proves nothing.

So, essentially, you are insisting that we throw out the evidence that proves us right. And you accuse us of “cheating”?

Deflector Shields (again, from the technical manual, which is just as canon until you show me any reason to doubt its accuracy):

Now, it is a canon fact in ST that shields - ALL shields, even from societies that don’t have transporters - will deflect a transporter beam, aside from isolated incidents that managed to take advantage of a “weak spot” in a shield. There is no evidence that there is such a “weak spot” in SW shields.

Furthermore, it is also canon that a transporter beam is extremely fragile and easy to interrupt. Simple thunderstorms and atmospheric turbulence have managed to prevent a transporter beam from functioning properly.

Given these facts - that a deflector shield protects against all forms of exotic radiation, energy, matter, etc., and that a transporter beam is easy to disrupt - the most likely conclusion is that, yes, a SW shield would be capable of blocking them.

And your attitude is just the opposite. “It CAN’T be there, otherwise the Enterprise CAN’T win!” Thus things like “warp strafing” and “transporters work against SW shields” are invented.

Duh. Neither is Star Trek. They’re “space operas”.

And Star Trek isn’t? You are aware that Gene Roddenberry had just finished working on a Western called “Have Gun, Will Travel”, and wanted to make a “sci-fi” series that worked the same way? “A wagon train to the stars”?

Pit a Star Destroyer against The Culture, or an AT-AT against a Bolo, and I’ll vote against Star Wars every time.

I just believe that Star Wars is a far superior series to Star Trek. Period. Star Trek is internally inconsistent, often two-dimensional (especially with the advent of Voyager), and half the technobabble relies on the public’s ignorance on the true meaning of the word “Quantum”. Sure they occasionally get a “deep” episode… simply because there’s so much crap in the series that they get the “monkeys at typewriters” type of hit.

Well, ST requires far MORE storytelling content in order to pull off the demands of a TV show. As such, a lot of it is hurried, uncreative, and unoriginal. Why else would they have to resort to still more holodeck stories in Voyager? I thought it was enough when we had Doctor Moriarty back in TNG.

I think SW’s primarily-novel format is better. It allows for a lot more quality at the expense of quantity. However, some people just seem to want a “sci-fi” fix, which is why ST remains popular.

To sum up: Lucasfilms has a different idea about canonity than Paramount. Neither SW or ST are true “science fiction”. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t believe an ISD’s shields would block a transporter beam. My balls itch. And I think Carthage must be destroyed.

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applause

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:: Give SPOOFE free ticket to seee Figrin Dan & the Modal Nodes in reward ::

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Well, you have to understand the pecking order I mentioned.

If there is something in the book, that contradicts the movies, it is ignored. (Although Lucas still hold the right to change it as he pleases.)

[sub]‘Splinter’ was also the first book written after the '77 release (Foster was the author I believe.) and before the others were made, so of course it wouldn’t fit the continuity.[/sub]:rolleyes:

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This may help.