No, I was getting permission to marry HER
Think about it for a minute. If you needed permission to marry her from anyone but her, you are saying she didn’t have the final say. If she wanted to marry you, but she had to wait for permission, then she had to get permission to marry you.
That’s how I see it. If you actually think you need her father’s permission to get married then I would think you’re a sexist person who doesn’t fully appreciate woman’s equality.
If you’re talking about getting her parent’s (not just father’s blessing), or just letting them know, than that;s not what’s being talked about here.
I don’t know how else to explain it to you. She didn’t have to wait for permission, she didn’t have to get permission, she did have the final say. If her dad said “Yep, good to go, you are allowed to marry my daughter” that doesn’t mean she HAD to marry me. Final decision with her.
Besides, like other posters said, it was really a formality, and just something for tradition. I wouldn’t expect a woman who never knew her dad, or was estranged, or even didn’t follow that tradition to do that. I’ve also heard of woman asking the man’s mother for permission.
I’m perfectly fine with someone saying “That tradition is archaic, and I refuse to do it” Going passed that to “I wouldn’t marry a guy who wanted to do that!” or “Sexist pigs do that 'cause they think woman are property!!!1!12” is what I object to.
If daughters are close to their fathers they know the answer already. Mine did. We have lots of questions for tradition, where the answer is known already. How many times has the answer to the wedding vow question been no? My new son-in-law proposed in public, knowing the answer of course. My daughter told me he was going to call asking for “permission” - and he knew that answer just as well.
Yeah it is sexist in a sense. So is the father walking the daughter down the aisle to “give her away.”
I see it as one of the things that shows that the people getting married think marriage is important. Better this than getting married by Elvis in Vegas.
If someone involved was very opposed to the concept then they shouldn’t do it. For most of the people it is basically an early part of the ceremony.
I didn’t ask because it was far from obvious she was going to say yes. I popped the question far more than nearly anyone does today. But it was a special case.
Could she get married to you without you getting married to her?
I fail to see the sense of this question.
It appears that jsgoddess position is a matter of principle, whereas the woman that wants her suitor to ask her father sees it as a matter of tradition…for show. Many of the wedding traditions are for show…pageantry. It’s woman’s day to be the princess in the fairy tale. A lot of women want that. Just because jsgoddess didn’t doesn’t make her wrong…one might even say that she’s more practical. But in my case…happy wife…happy life.
That isn’t a question for tradition where the answer is known already. That’s a question to confirm in front of witnesses that the intent of the parties is to marry, because getting married is a legally binding change. It doesn’t have to be in a ceremony, but the officiant and the witnesses (or just witnesses if you’re in an officiant-less state) have to have some mechanism to ensure that both parties know they are getting married and intend to get married.
Tracy and Jamie want to get married. Tracy doesn’t need anyone’s permission to marry Jamie, but Jamie needs permission to marry Tracy. Jamie doesn’t get permission to marry Tracy. Can Tracy still marry Jamie? No. A lack of permission for one makes both unable to marry each other.
You obviously disagree with this tradition, fine, I’m not trying to change your mind. My fiance wanted me to ask her Father, or get his blessing, or whatever (again, it was in Korean, so I could have been pledging my salary over to him:)). This wasn’t something written in stone, and we all already knew the answer, it was just something to make her happy, her parents happy, and the rest of her family happy. MY family didn’t care if I did it or not.
Again, I find nothing sexist or objectifying about it, I didn’t FORCE it on anyone, SHE wanted me to do it. If you feel that is sexist or whatever, good on you. Don’t do it in YOUR engagement or whatever, or when your children get married.
Passing judgement on someone else’s entire family is a tradition I guess you ARE familiar with. Good luck with that.
Sometimes looking critically at the traditions society asks us to follow is an opportunity for growth. It can make us stop, think, and evaluate what values those traditions are passing down, for good and for bad. For me, passing down traditions that would imply to my daughter that she needs special permissions and protections that her brother doesn’t need is not a value I want to give either of them.
As Reconstructionist Judaism says, tradition has a vote, not a veto.
Very well put. I just don’t think any tradition should be mindlessly adopted. Every single one should be examined, and examined repeatedly. I guess if you really want your boyfriend to ask your dad, go for it, but I would prefer that the whole couple, together, go to both sets of parents and ask for their blessing. Why wouldn’t you? Why does only he have to ask the dad? That does smack of her being kept…
What ITD says about brothers and sisters is good to think of, too. If I have a son and a daugher I should expect her boyfriend to ask my husband but my son doesn’t need mom or dad’s blessing? Yeah, it’s a little icky.
But if it works for others, fine. It’s just kind of hard to say it’s not sexist and antiquated when it so clearly is!
I did and he said yes. That was 39 years ago and the marriage seems to be working.
I was in the US Air Force at the time and I had to ask my commander if I could get married. My wife was born and raised int he USA so it wasn’t like she was a foreign national.
to call you
Jeez.
This thread got a LOT more mileage than I expected, I’ll tell ya.
Why did you need your commander’s permission?
Because if the Army had wanted him to have a spouse, it would have issued him one!
Coming in late, but my spouse did not ask my father. I don’t think it would have occurred to him, and I would have been highly offended if he had (which I’m sure he knew me well enough to know).
I loved my dad dearly (he passed away last year), but I didn’t need his permission to get married or do anything else. Then again, we bucked a lot of traditions at our wedding (including the “dad gives daughter away” one).
Still married, coming up on 26 years. It worked for us.
Yes. Certainly, my wife’s hand was her own, and her permission was all that was needed. However, her father is a big fan of tradition, and he and I got off to a rocky start at first (although all was well by the time she and I were thinking of getting engaged). He considered it a sign of respect that I ask him, and it’s a sign of his respect for me that he consents. I don’t think it undermines my wife’s status as an adult in any way, and she agrees with that. It’s a courtesy, like holding the door open for someone. It’s not meant to imply that they are incapable of holding open their own door.
Sexism is pretty much always traditional. Passing judgment on such tradition is how society progresses and stops being so sexist.
I thought signing the marriage license did that. And I got married in Pennsylvania where you can get married without benefit of clergy or anyone else - the two of you can marry yourselves.
There are a lot of things that need witnesses which don’t require a ceremony or tradition. When I was requesting a copy of my kid’s new marriage license two people got married at the clerk window next to me. No vows that I can remember.