Scissorjack, I just want to take this opportunity to say something about your sig line, which I love. And that is, that in my opinion, it would be worth losing the money to witness the jack of spades jump out and squirt cider in my ear. So I have to say I would take that bet.
For all you kids out in Doperland who may try this, wash up afterward. The hydochloric acid in the digestive juices can leave some nasty burns.
Maybe it was his comments?
So what does that make us who happen to be men? Delusional and insecure? Someone walks in and throws a comment like that out, will like get slapped back.
I think that Bryan Ekers said it well.
See, SS isn’t here for a serious discussion. It has to be intimate, it has to be woman on woman (with no dogs). So really, what’s there to discuss? Had the OP been about intimacy vs. straight plumbing shots, then I could see a back and forth, but all the OP seems to want is confirmation of his private fantasy. Ho hum.
He defines the scenario, and then goes on a diatribe on why it has to be his way. E.g., sexual tension is girls kissing girls and nothing else. If this were in a different forum, it may get ignored, but his newbie (do people still use that term?) luck threw him in a forum where people have less tolerance for that kind of shit.
There’s also sort of a smugness about him. When you look at the OP:
as if he’s the only guy in the whole world who understand intimacy. I don’t know about others, but if he were to written this assuming that others have somehow learned about intimacy (Hint. We’re not all 16, thanks.) then he may not have come across as annoying.
Well, I think it sounds like he wants porn as a girlfriend substitute.
Hell, I want a girlfriend for as a porn subsitute. 
Is ennui code for a hoo-hoo ?
I admit I would agree with our OP’er guest. Romance is hot. Foreplay is hot. Subtlety is hot. They are also abstracts that are quite difficult to convey on film. Sure, we have all seen beautifully romantic scenes and some have contained sensuous moments.
There’s something difficult about getting very talented actors to do serious hardcore sex. Lacking great acting talent, the hardcore actors rely upon their body parts and wooden scripts.
If there were even a FEW actors/ actresses who were willing to perform a fabulously complex romantic subtle yet erotic script including intimacy, they’d have a box office smash on their hands.
I admit, I consume porn. I also admit that seriously smokin’ romance and lovemaking beats porn hands down.
Cartooniverse
Ugh! Now my McGregor and cake fantasy is ruined.
Well, not as someone to drag him round the shops, bitch about the division of household chores and watch chick-flicks with, I’m guessing. And we can’t all get the girlfriend we want when we want one on the terms that we want, whereas porn is cheap and accessible. A burger may be no substitute for a romantic candlelit dinner in a five-star restaurant, but it beats the shit out of going hungry. 
I dunno. Re-read the OP. Sounds like he finds that kind of thing a turn-on.
I never said I would prefer porn over a real girl. I think you read into that to justify your insults, because porn is “icky”. While I’m not dating anyone right now, even when I’m in a relationship I still masturbate and watch porn. There’s just no way the girl is always going to be there, so I do the deed whenever I get the urge. And no I don’t feel ashamed about this at all.
Also I apologize for coming off as smug, and making broad generalizations about men. This was done mostly out of frustration. I don’t enjoy insulting other people. The problem is I’ve always felt like an outcast when it came to my taste in women and taste in porn. And it gets very aggravating when you keep hearing the entire world tell you you’re some kind of freak. The thing is I just want to relate to other human beings. I want to believe that I’m not alone. I want to believe that even though the majority of porn is filmed a certain way, that most men would like to see something different. I need to believe that the busty plastic bimbo look is something that has forced its way into the mainstream, not something most men prefer.
I’m going to use a couple of analogies, which will hopefully shed some light on my current situation, even if you’re not into porn.
When you get sick of mainstream music, you turn to music that is more personal and connects with you. You usually have to turn to indie or underground music for this. I’ve always been sick of mainstream music. But I didn’t discover KEXP.org until three years ago. Ever since then I’ve found that music can continually blow my mind. I never realized that I could make these deep, almost spiritual connections with music.
Also when you’re in the mood to laugh, you can listen to a stand up comic cd, or maybe watch a sketch comedy show. Both these formats are fine, because it’s just joke after joke after joke, and sometimes that’s what I’m in the mood for. However, why should I feel weird if I want to watch a comedy that shows real connections with human beings? One that shows real life situations and natural dialog.
I’m sure many of you are Judd Apatow fans. I watched Freaks and Geeks for the first time last year. I was completely floored by this show. I never even thought it was possible to mix this level of realism, this level of drama, and this many unpredictable laughs into one TV show. The thing is that when you laugh, you’re laughing with them. You feel like you’re right there along side these characters because these are real people you knew in high school.
So why is it that I should feel ashamed for wanting something more from porn? So there’s a social taboo that porn is creepy, therefore I should just settle with whatever I can get my hands on? Is this really what you guys believe?
Also, stop saying that this is simply “your personal fantasy” like it’s some fetish. Seriously, why not actually read what I typed? The concepts that I’m bringing up are things that have never even been attempted in porn. These are things that I think a lot of people would love to see. Maybe it would even open doors for those who find porn disgusting, and create a whole new market. I said lesbians only because that’s what I believe would work for a straight man. However I’m sure you could easily apply my ideas to guy/girl or gay porn.
I was confused at first by the phrase lesbian porn. I assumed you meant “porn for lesbians,” but then I caught on that you mean is “porn for heterosexual men featuring lesbians or lesbian acts.”
Also, what you call intimacy, I call tenderness. Intimacy, for me, goes deeper than delicate kisses or slow caresses. Intimacy, sexual or otherwise, occurs in the act of two people getting to know one another better, passionately aroused because they want each other, not each other’s bodies. There’s a difference between sharing a sexual experience and sharing a sexual encounter. The former is easy to film, the latter not so much.
It can be. It can also be merely the exquisite stimulation of nerve endings.
Have you seen Henry & June? Not soft-porn, not erotica, but there are three scenes of lesbian sexuality and plenty of scenes of two women flirting.
I felt that I should post to this thread, thanks to the title.
That is all.
My name is actually “straight man” in the other sense, but there you go.
So, you’re Dan Rowan? I heard you was dead.
I have another, perhaps more fitting, example.
I enjoy eating. It just so happens that most the food I love is usually bad for me. Does this mean that I should be completely ridden with guilt and shame every time I eat? Should I cry every time I take another bite of that lasagna? Moreover, should I feel more shame, somehow, because I want to go out and find new, more interesting and exotic foods?
I think this was probably the biggest point I was trying to make when describing my “build up” scenes. I think you need to see the motions of them flirting, making each other laugh, etc. to really see just how much they like each other, rather than pure lust. I want to show these girls falling for each other. And yes I think I could portray that in 10~20 minutes if done right.
My unique brain chemistry compels me. I don’t expect anyone to understand it; it’s just this burden I have to bear, despite all criticism and the attendant social stigma. I hope one day I can be understood by the world, but my ongoing suffering has taught me one thing: patience.
Nah, I’m just kidding.
Hey, for me, this IS porn.
Well, there was that episode of 30 Rock where the well-meaning but clueless Jack (Alec Baldwin), assumes his coworker Liz (Tina Fey) is a lesbian and sets her up on a blind date with “Thomas” (Stephanie March). Now, I’m a little hard-pressed (or hard something) to think of a more attractive lesbian pairing than Fey/March (maybe these two from Mulhullond Drive), but the entertainment value in the episode was the dialogue. A torrid sex scene would have been an extremely extremely extremely welcome bonus. I’m hoping it’ll be a DVD extra.
Anyhoo… there are some valid arguments to be made that conventional genital-closeup porn is tedious, but porn is, if nothing else, market-driven. Up to now, had I to guess, the massive expansion of the accessibility of porn means the conventional stuff is still profitable as it reaches new costumers. It will eventually reach saturation, though, and specialization will increase. Your particular interest, though… well, I don’t know that I’d consider it as specific as a fetish, is likely to be met in mainstream films as throwing in an explicit or near-explicit sex scene becomes the norm for R-rated films. I guess the lesbian equivalent of Brokeback Mountain is inevitable.
I seriously doubt anyone here is suggesting you should feel shame. Rather, we’re suggesting you shouldn’t feel special.
A lot of people are suggesting I should “go get laid” in a very derogatory manner. As if I prefer porn to sex. I don’t know how you can’t see the implied shame.
No, only you are saying I think I’m special or unique, and it’s getting really fucking annoying, because I seem to be saying the exact opposite. What I’m getting at is that my views, even though they are not popular or widely accepted by society, are carried by many other people. In other words it feels like maybe 1% of all people agree with me, except that I actually believe it’s probably more around 30~40%.
The problem is that not many other people are speaking up. And it’s the shame that many people still associate with porn that keeps them from talking. How often do you see honest to god porn discussion threads with people stating their most inner degenerate desires? I’m sure at least half the people reading this thread are too embarrassed to post here, whether they agree with my views or not.
So why didn’t I just post this on a porn discussion forum? If you thought all video games were completely horrible, and needed a huge face list, would you go to a video game forum and rant about it? No, because you would get flamed, and called a “stupid n00b”. I know I’m making another generalization, but I think most people who frequent porn discussion forums are happy with the current porn industry. They would not be the target audience for the film I’m describing.
Oh, dear. As mentioned above, porn is 100% market driven. Porn will be made when the actors, producers, and distributors will all make money off it. If your niche was actually occupied by 30~40% of all the people who spend money on porn, your niche would be occupied by the makers as well. I promise.
Your desire is a niche product. Sorry. It’s still out there (again, as mentioned above) you’re just going to have to look for it with a little more effort than those who are into big boobs or big dicks.
I would like something similar to what the OP describes. I hate porn–it is not arousing to me to watch some jerk hold a skank by her hair and shout at her while she’s giving her a hummer, to use but one example.
I would like something I could watch with a partner (I would say my spouse, but that’s a whole nother can of worms).
There most definetly is a market for this kind of thing. I think erotica probably covers much of it, but again, that is geared mostly towards women. So what if the market is smaller–it is for other things, but this is overlooked for some reason (lingering Victorian/Puritan attitudes? Fear of bringing humor, joy and tenderness into a primal physical act? Got me).
Where are the films for couples that aren’t the hairy pizza delivery man and the lonely scraggy looking woman who answers the door? and kill that awful music–it screams late 70’s lounge act…
The group dynamics in this thread are fascinating. I can’t believe some guys here actually feel defensive because one guy stood up and said he didn’t enjoy typical porn. So what? So what if he generalized? It’s one opinion.
I don’t understand the appeal either, but have been called a frigid bitch/repressed/just need a good cock etc(by men and women) too many times for it to matter(in RL, I mean, not here). Watch whatever you want, but don’t expect everyone else to enjoy it. I know I won’t until it has a believable plot, decent acting, some character complexity and a dramatic arch (insert smart ass remark here…).
I beg to differ. I believe that “what’s quick and easy to crank out” and “what we’re used to doing” also play a pretty big part.