Strict Catholicism - Healthy or Freaky? - long

In My Humble Opinion
41

Congratulations, Res!!!

As far as vocations are concerned, being married and having a family is (to my mind) as big a vocation as entering religious life. Especially, as some people have pointed out, you’re expected to have children (although the Church doesn’t dictate you have to have a LOT of children) and it’s your responsibility to bring up that child in the faith. It’s the big circle.

As for regular confessions, one of my best friends is a priest. He confesses every day, and talks about how he worries about what he’ll do when his confessor dies. He says his biggest failing is anger. Confession is more than just a laundry list of sins - it’s discussing with your confessor your doubts and difficulties, it’s getting spiritual guidance. After my mother did something terribly hurtful to me, I had a very hard time moving on, even being in her presence. A Jewish friend told me that it was my obligation to honour and respect my parents, so therefore I had to put it behind me. That was easier said than done. But when I finally took the problem to my priest, he asked me if I still loved her (yes). Was I doing anything bad to her (no, besides not being around her much). He said that people’s relationships change with time, and that as long as I wasn’t being deliberately hurtful, to not be so hard on myself. Being given that permission to feel badly and take my time made it possible to reconcile with her. That’s the beauty of confession. It’s not “Bless me Father, for I have sinned. I had impure thoughts.” “Say 10 Hail Mary’s and don’t do it again”. It’s “Help me Father, I get so angry at my children I want to hit them.” and the answer may be to take the time to say a prayer and calm down so you can deal with them rationally.

As far as tithing 10%, the Church is far less concerned with the amount you give than many churches. Although they suggest 10% donation to charity, they don’t tell you how much has to be given to the Church. I’ve talked to some of my Protestant co-workers here in the South, and they are expected to tithe 10% and people have said their churches would make it uncomfortable for you to be there if you couldn’t contribute a certain amount. In my parish we have folks that are millionaires along with homeless folks. When I was unemployed and couldn’t really afford to contribute, I helped out by putting together the church bulletin and photocopying it for Mass. No one asks how much you contribute, no one puts any guilt trip on you for for not giving what they think is enough. You are expected to support the Church, to help the poor and make try to make the world a better place. The parishes and dioceses are very good about telling you how resources are used. Many American parishes “adopt” parishes in less fortunate countries, helping build schools, medical missions, etc.

As far as heaven and hell, God is good, but he’s also just. I guess you can only do your best and hope for the best. If you know the consequences of your actions and choose to do wrong, why should you be given a free pass? I’ve asked my priest why God doesn’t make the path to enlightenment easier. He said that anything worth having is obtained at some cost. I also think that if God came up and smacked you in the face with his desires, it would take some of the free will out of it. We have to decide for ourselves what path to take, not just to make us happy at the moment, but to do what’s right.

StG

42

There are cafeteria Catholics. I’m one, though I personally would not choose that label for myself.

What reasons are there for anyone to believe or trust the Catholic church at all? Why would a rational person choose this religion?

Well the church teaches that God sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost that he might “continually sanctify the Church” [Catechism of the Catholic Church, 767]. And the Holy Spirit guides the church to God’s truth: “So that she can fulfull her mission, the Holy Spirit ‘bestows upon [the Church] varied hierarchic and charismatic gifts, and in this way directs her.’”

As a (cafeteria) Catholic, I believe what the catechism teaches on this.

So, the church isn’t just a bunch of old guys with blinders on; it’s guided by the Holy Spirit. Then we can just safely accept everything taught by the church right?

Nope. “‘The Church . . . will receive its perfection only in the glory of heaven,’ at the time of Christ’s glorious return. Until that day, ‘the Church progresses on her pilgrimage amidst this world’s persecutions and God’s consolations.’” [CCC 769]. See, even though the church is guided toward the truth by the Holy Spirit, it doesn’t mean that at any given time the Church’s teachings are exactly and only God’s truth. If it were otherwise, it would mean that we can (and, in fact, do) fully know God.

As a (cafeteria) Catholic, I do not believe what the catechism teaches: that the Church can fully know God, except only “at the time of Christ’s glorious return”.

I suppose you could argue that Christ’s return is right around the corner, but I don’t know that. So, consequently, the catechism requires me as a Catholic to believe that the teachings of the church at the present time (a) cannot possibly contain all of God’s truth and (b) can possibly contain some extra thing’s that aren’t really part of “God’s truth”.

Point (a) can be seen when the church pronounces new teachings on a spiritual or moral matter. And though it’s rare, point (b) can be seen when the church reverses herself and her teachings (which can and has happened).

How does the Holy Spirit guide the Church? Does he just tell the Pope stuff and let it propagate down through the hierarchy? Or does he sometimes tell me stuff too? I believe the latter.

I am well aware that the Church’s teachings are not determined by the majority of Catholics. And I don’t really believe that I am free to “pick and choose” from Catholic teachings, or that I can just practice the fragments of Catholicism that I “happen to like”. But, when there is a conflict between what the Church tells me and what God tells me, I think I have to listen to God.

In fact, I think Catholicism requires this. I cannot faithfully believe that the Church is guided to reach perfection by the Holy Spirit and at the same time ignore what the Holy Spirit tells me about Church teachings.

43

Oh dear.

That should read “As a (cafeteria) Catholic, I do believe what the catechism…”

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Update –

First of all, thanks once again for all of your insights and advice.

My GF and I spent a long weekend together, 4 nights in a row. She had the day off yesterday, so I called in sick for work and we spent the entire day together. Our religious differences were basically a non-issue. I met her parents and grandparents, which really gave me an insight into why she is who she is. Looking at pictures of her as a child, I noticed that there were religious decorations in many of them, and I understood that she was raised in the faith more than I realized. Only her parents were really laid back in their approach to Catholicism; they didn’t shove it down her throat like mine did to me, and guilt was not thrown at her left and right like it was to me. I no longer think that guilt is a big part of her motivation in her involvement; it was such a part of mine that I assumed it was for her as well.

On Friday night we spoke about how we thought that we were meant for each other and how although we’re only 2 months in, we can just tell. We talked about the logistics of her joining me in CA, and agreed that we would try and make it work (she’d move out there upon graduating from grad school 8 months later). Later that night I spoke with her about some of the things that I learned from all of you (NFP, for example). I told her that I am no longer opposed to the idea, which pleased her greatly. We had an incredibly intimate night together.

In my original post, I didn’t do her justice in my description. Although she has more involvement than anyone I know in her religion, I made her sound like a “square” (for lack of a better word). But her and I party like rock stars all the time, and I have more fun with her than I’ve ever had with anyone. We drink and smoke and dance and see bands and all that fun stuff that you do when you’re 24.

I spoke with her about the move again last night. It started with our ideas on CA. At first we reiterated what we originally said, about making it work. I told her for the first time about my doubts of whether or not I should go. We became a little more honest and indirectly admitted that basically the only way it would work between us is if I didn’t go, which I believe to be the truth, although we both agreed that if it was meant to be it will work out.

And that’s where I stand now. Actually, I have no idea what I will choose. I’m learning through her to chill out on my anti-Catholicism views, so that is less of an issue although not resolved. I had never been exposed to that faith in a positive light, so I couldn’t ever see it in one. But now I can, although I’m still not going to go to Church. In fact, I’d say at this point I’m leaning more on the side of staying. I always wanted to move to CA and get a band going, but now I think that the alternative sounds quite exciting (if I stay I know we’ll end up getting married – like I mentioned before, we just know). I have mixed feelings. I can see this idea in terms of “growing up,” but I also can see it as “pussing out” or “giving up” or “giving in.” I don’t want to resent her or a potential family for my decision to stay, but I don’t want to leave her if she truly is the one. Here’s what I see happening: we grow closer every day. By the time I have to leave, I foresee being so attached and close with her that I’ll stay with little reservation. And that may be a mistake. I‘ll keep you all posted . . .

ResIpsaLoquitor,

Thanks again for all your help! It was much appreciated!

StGermain,

Thank you for addressing my sarcastic criticisms of the church! Your answers made a lot of sense to me, and I feel enhanced my understanding of Catholicism.

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rhinostylee - I’m glad if I helped in some small way. Certainly Catholicism isn’t for everyone, but sometimes it helps to look at it from a different point of view. Best of luck to you and your girlfriend. If it won’t offend you, I’ll say a prayer for the two of you tonight, that things work out for the best for all concerned.

StG

46

StGermain -

Please do say a prayer for us tonight! The issue weighs heavy on my mind at all times, so your help is much appreciated.

Thanks again -