Suicide in Scripture....

Great Debates
1

In this thread, I’ve detailed some really difficult times and struggles that a friend of mine (and to some extent myself) are going through. Well, within in just the past couple of days since I posted that (and perhaps to do with me being a little less available dealing with personal family issues), things appears to be reaching some sort of critical mass for her.

So, although she’s an atheist and I’m a terribly lapsed fundamentalist, she (God, this breaks my heart) wanted me to come on the board to ask for specific instances in biblical scripture that denounce suicide and its resulting consequences. In other words, whatever’s in there. Now, I’m only doing this for hoping that’ll it’ll help her stay her decision and reconsider things entirely. But I’m so lost on my own right now and everyone here who are of the spiritual sort, seem so much better suited to the task then I could ever be. And would do a much better job of it too, I might add. Hell, anyone of you guys could probably have already brought her permanently back from the brink without hardly any work at all. I just feel so inadequate.

So, could y’all give me what you’ve got and I will dutifully report back to her ASAP. And pray. Much of that is needed right now, all the way around. As always, I appreciate the great individuals in the Dope community. You guys are wonderful.

Thanks so much.

2

If she’s an atheist why does she care what scripture says about suicide?

3

Maybe because when you’re falling off a cliff you’ll grasp for branches even though you know they won’t hold you.
I wish I had some words of wisdom that would help your friend out hopefool.

4

The Bible does not condemn suicide. Religious proscriptions against it are derived from generic admonitions against murder. References to individual committing ot attempting to commit sucide in the Bible are not described as sinful.

More from religioustolerance.org

5

Diogenes’ advice is just a little too glib for me, and less than helpful. The website he directed you to is listed as an alternative religion website, so I urge you to seek other biblical sources first.

While the Bible does not explicitly condemn suicide, a thorough reading of the seven occasions in which an individual commits suicide in the Bible can only lead one to conclude that suicide is very much the product of unhealthy and self-destructive impulses. At no time in the Bible does a suicidal character exhibit positive, loving, healthy, joyful feelings, much less clear-headed thinking.

Please, please listen to me. I lost my youngest brother to suicide four years ago. I cannot tell you how devastated that left me, how devastated it left my entire family. My father grew old overnight. I saw my three big, tough, macho brothers break down sobbing. For two years I had dreams in which I desperately chased him through empty buildings unable to catch him, calling out his name. I had sudden crying jags that left me exhausted (and prior to this I was the tough one of the family. I almost literally never cried); an abrupt glimpse in a familiar location of someone matching his general build followed immediately by my heart leaping in my chest believing oh-so-fleetingly that it was him. I walked through his silent house picking out the clothes for his funeral. The right shirt, tie, shoes, socks…all for my baby brother. He was the one I had always taken care of when we were children, becoming a surrogate mother as our parents divorced and put hundreds of miles between family members. He was my responsibility for so long. Then he left me and it almost killed me. Only someone who has gone through this agony can fully appreciate what I’m talking about. I tell you this to let you know that your friend has family, loved ones who will grieve every bit as much as I have. It is an unrelenting pain to lose someone you love and to find out too late how very, very important that person is.

Please, oh please, tell your friend this pain will pass if s/he gives it time. The important thing now is to seek help. I urge you as strongly as I possibly can, do not dismiss a suicide threat. When someone reaches that point, they are more, not less, likely to attempt suicide. Please, seek help with your friend, and particularly if your friend is not capable of thinking clearly, seek help for him/her. Please. It’s not too late. Look in your phonebook for a suicide hotline, and if all else fails, call 911. They will treat your friend with compassion and empathy, and you may be the one who saves a life. Please, do this for yourself and your friend.

6

I wasn’t offering advice, I was just answering the OP’s factual question about the spiritual consequences of suicide in scripture. The Bible just doesn’t say anything about it one way or the other. (i.e. it doesn’t say if suicide is a sin or if people who do it go to Hell, which I got the impression was what the OP’s friend wanted to know).

I agree with the rest of NaSultainne’s advice. Get her to call a suicide hotline, call her parents, call 911, do whatever you can to talk her out of it. She may be clinically depressed and medication can help a lot.

7

Thanks to everyone that participated in helping me out with this. It’ll give me a little to work with (from both perspectives) when she and I talk tonight. And actually Dio, I have the RTO site bookmarked, it just never crossed my mind to go look there for help. Duh me.

Oh, and to SnoopyFan, yes I think Ptahlis (thank you so much for your kind words – I wish I had some wisdom too) has it right. If she’s really decided this might finally be it, she wants to make sure she’s certain about what she does believe and make an informed decision. At least, I would suppose that’s it.

NaSultainne - I truly appreciate you sharing your story here about your brother and I am so sorry for your loss. Since I, too, am in the same situation as my friend (but not quite so close to the edge), I take suicidal anything very seriously. So I’m watching her like a hawk and she already is in therapy for this, among other things. We have 911 on speed dial just to prevent such a situation if it arises (although calling the prevention hotline for either one of us around here has been a joke – it’s always busy), if fortunately, we have the opportunity. But thank you for reminding not to forget any of the important details.

I’ll just keep holding on for both of us.

8

Well, one of the accounts of the death of Judas Iscariot was that he hanged himself. And Jesus, before He died, mentioned that for the one who betrayed Him, “It would be better for that one that he had never been born.” I can dig up chapter and verse if you like.

I don’t think this is to be taken as evidence that all suicides go to Hell, but I also think suicide (absent special circumstances like terminal illness) is a bad idea.

I would not recommend telling her that God is threatening your friend with Hell if she suicides. But killing yourself is not a lot different from killing someone else.

God be and abide with you both.

Regards,
Shodan

9

Hopefool, I can utterly relate to your freind. I was suicidal off-and-on for years, and the two things that stayed my hand were 1) the knowledge that it would utterly crush my Grandmother, who was/is the only person in the world I could not be angry with or blame for anything 2) the thought that it was morally wrong. Even when I hated God and actively tried to not believe in him, somehow there was enough guilt associated with the act that I refrained. That sort of guilt is not the best long-term reason to keep living … but any port in a storm.

If she is looking for scriptural references, maybe the best answer is to point to the many places where it talks about overcoming despair, and how so many “good” people went through bad times… David, Paul, Jesus himself. I’m at work right now, but if you think it would be useful I can post some later or email them to you.

In any case, I will be praying for her.

10

Shodan - Ah, yes, I didn’t really want to use Judas as an example because, since she is an atheist, that would seem to lie more at the whole Christianity debate than a clear-cut (IMHO) pronouncement in scripture that it’s wrong. However, I’ll check on it more in context and see if it’s something that won’t put her further off than what I think she’s looking for. Thanks for the idea though and the good thoughts for both of us. We DO need it.

furt - Can I relate to what you said! Sometimes, I feel like the only reason I stay is because of my dog and my own waffling on the afterlife. Although I’ve mostly put my latter thoughts to bed on that one, it still comes up, in the “heat” of the moment. However, I often keep for myself, the idea of overcoming despair as is witnessed in scripture. She doesn’t because it gives her no comfort and she doesn’t believe in it. I understand how bizarre it is that she’s asking even generally, but I’m trying to help out the best that I can under the circumstances that she’s outlined. So, thank you and I’m sure she’ll take all the prayers she can get (even if she’d never say so).

Hope that all made sense. I’m operating on very little sleep today.

11

Salaam aleikum hopefool

I feel very sorry and deeply moved to read all of this about persons I don’t know.

Maybe reflecting on the empathy and emotions your posts provoke by all these people here who don’t know you or your friend, can help you to think about the emotions that knowing about your pain would provoke by people who do know and love you.
People are out there to help you, to listen to you even if you are convinced that nobody is able to understand what you are going through. And if you are religious: God knows what you are going through.

If there is a religious hint needed to help you and your friend, then think of this : You weren’t given life to end it yourself because circumstances brought you to loose your will to go on living. Life is the most precious gift of God, it makes you able to find your way towards Him. Ending it because you give up is taking that gift for granted and in my opinion it certainly isn’t. Every life has a purpose. If you go outside and smile to a child, you already give your day a meaning.

If you think you are poor or deprived in whatever meaning of these words, you can surely manage to reflect on it that there are always people who have less and are in more misery then you are right now.
Maybe you could try to come in contact with people who are in need. It shall give you an opportunity to see your own problems in a completely different perspective.

And think for example about that little Iraqi child that was all over the media lately, the 12 year old boy who lost not only his parents, brothers, sisters, relatives, but also both his arms and was burned all over his body. He manages to smile and to embrace life.

Probably you feel it as extremely unjust that you are in this situation, but as others have been there and among them many were able to overcome this, so can you. And so can your friend.
Your presence here clearly indicates that you don’t give up.
Which is in my opinion a sign that you can overcome whatever depression and crisis you might go through right now. And what better encouragment for your friend then your courage to keep on going?

You are both in my prayers.

Salaam.
Aldebaran.

12

Hugs help. Hug her until the pain and fear subsides. Hugs let others know you consider them valuable. Just when they believe themselves to be unlikeable failures, step in and give a hug.

In the past when negative thoughts were strong, people would quote the Bible, “God is for you, who can be against you.”
“God loves you, turn those problems over to Him.”

Now, with atheists everywhere, a more practical approach may help. Hug them, then hug them again.

Try to get away from the negativity. Turn off the TV. Stop reading scary books and articles. Do some very positive affirmations.
http://ndeweb.com/Affirm.htm
I wrote these I warn you now, but they have been useful to many. Affirmations will help you see better.

Walking in a maze can be frustrating. Dead ends everywhere, no matter how hard you try, seems like failure is built-in. Affirmations will help you to rise a bit, look over the maze for the exits, that’s how they help. Once you are able to see a light at the end of the tunnel, you can find your own way out.

Several years ago near death experiences were given the suicidal to read. It was found that among those who actually read them 63% never tried again. I am quoting here from memory, no cite available.

Below are some NDEs by those who attempted suicide and didn’t succeed. You can email one of them.
http://ndeweb.com/Suicide1.htm

Nothing is hopeless, our thoughts play with us until we learn to control them. It’s not easy, but doable.

What I write here I learned from near death experiences, I have no degree in anything, nor consider myself an expert in anything, I am a learner, a seeker of truth. What I say are my opinions and beliefs, and I hope they will be of value to someone.

Love is the answer
Leroy