I think the big critique here is the same as your critique of why an “America votes” scheme is bad. What is shown on the TV has a big impact.
Also, the “heat of the moment” factor is pretty important for that final vote. I always find myself forgetting that the expanded time is a result of the way the show is aired - these events (particularly at the end) are happening very close together in real time. Jerri got voted out one day before she had to vote for the winner. Giving the jury more time to decompress and reflect might result in better outcomes, but could also be worse.
I also don’t like the idea of contestants lobbying for votes in the time between the end of shooting and the airing of the finale (and the various vote-buying allegations that would likely pop up).
It would also make put the entire game at the mercy of the producers and editors of the show. Depending on how you cut things, how you frame conflicts and include (or exclude) footage, it’d be easy to stack the deck for or against a contestant so that the public will naturally love (or hate) them without necessarily representing them in a fair or balanced light. Of course, there’s that danger anywhere, but as for now, $1M doesn’t hang in the balance. All the jurors have to live and eat and work and sleep with their competitiors, so they’re going to know more about them than any of us ever would. Their opinion will be as informed as anyone’s, while the US audience will judge based on who TPTB want to play up or highlight or recontextualize for their own interests.
Interesting. Problem: you make the point that the show’s strength is the fact that the competition is perceived as “more or less genuine”. Part of that perception comes from the fact that the jury is voting based on what they’ve seen rather than what we’ve seen. That limitation is what makes the show as “genuine” as it is. Example: granted, if the jury had seen all of Parvati’s machinations, they may very well have voted for her to win. But it’s incumbent on her to make that point during final TC. Final TC is really the final challenge, and it’s up to the finalists to compete for the jury’s votes. Exposing them to things they haven’t actually witnessed would, IMO, sully the integrity of the game.
It would completely ruin the confessionals, where the players tell us the viewers what they’re doing and why. AFAIK, those are never overheard by other players, so the contestants can be completely honest, and give away their future plans and secrets. They’d become far less entertaining if the players knew they were talking to the jury as well.
What percentage of the vote does Russell think the audience should get? Because he’d need them to have at least a 40% share (6 extra votes) to have won. Talk about packing the court…
Agree that having America vote is a bad idea. The other ‘phone in’ shows can still maintain their integrity because we see enough to make an informed decision – e.g. the 3 minute song or dance. You can’t do that with “Survivor” because it puts too much power in the hands of the editors to whittle down 24/7 into segments that give everyone equal airtime and a fair representation of their personalities.
James defended himself at the reunion show by saying that they seemed to only show clips of him acting like a jerk.
FYI, I wonder if Russell would have won fan favorite had the vote taken place after the reunion. Of course, I was really surprised that it was Rupert again in the final two.
This is why Big Brother changed their jury format after Season 3. Danielle’s diary room segments are what lost her the money, because the jury was shown whole episodes instead of the way it is now, when all they see are competitions and ceremonies (nomination, veto and eviction) of the previous weeks events.
Exactly the realization I had last night and was going to post here. I’m pro-Russell, but it became clear last night that his skill is in getting a particular vote out to go his way, not in considering the next vote or the vote after that.
Same here. I still think he should’ve won last season, but I think he sealed his own doom this season, particularly in the final tribal council. It’s weird how he never seems at a loss for words in the jungle, or even at other tribals. But at final tribal and in the reunion show he stumbles and fails. His ability to get people to vote the way he wants them to just doesn’t work in the final.
I do hope we see him again the next time they trot out the all-stars and I hope that having some time away from the game will show him that he could’ve made most of the same moves he made without antagonizing the jury along the way. If he can keep his tactics and work up a bit of social strategy, he might finally have what it takes to win.
Sandra knew when to stir the pot and when to back off and be quiet. Russell could’ve keep his mouth shut when it would’ve helped him and it cost him. He also made some fatal mistakes in the final days as far as who he kept. I still think that even hated as he was that he could’ve beat Jerri and Colby if he took Colby up on the offer to oust Sandra and then Parv.
I don’t begrudge Sandra winning though I was pretty sure it would be Parv until the very end. Yes, Sandra failed to get Russell out, but each time she did, she skillfully slipped back “under his thumb” before he even noticed she was gone. There’s a difference between under-the-radar and doing nothing, vs. under-the-radar and still scheming. She’s the best there is at the latter.
I don’t agree with the “crazed weasel” characterization of Russell. I think every flip he did had a reason, and if he had just done them with a bit of class, he could’ve won. I do think there are Jurors out there that are willing to vote for someone who outplayed them “fair and square” (whatever that means in this game) but you’ll get that vote easier if you butter them up a bit first, rather than point and laugh when you beat them.
Like Tom said, I agree that the best measure of a good survivor player is winning Survivor, so Sandra is indeed the best of all time. But Russell ain’t far behind, he just needs some polish and a filter between his brain and mouth.
I disagree with this. I have a feeling that his ridiculous pointless flip with Colby and Rupert a few episodes came back and bit him in the ass. It lost him all their remaining respect, and probably soured the rest of the jury at the Ponderosa. It was a desperation play when he didn’t need to be desperate.
I guess Russell was expecting this sort of attitude from people, especially from Survivor veterans whom he thought would respect a game played to the max.
His downfall was not realizing that even Survivor veterans are people and if you hurt them, they do become bitter, and they’ll never give you a million dollars.
One thing that came out of Russell’s two seasons was an excellent example of how not to play the game, if you want the million dollars.
Unfortunately for TV viewers, with last season’s winner (Natalie) and this season’s winner (Sandra), future contestants will notice how you should play the game to win the million, and it will make for boring TV. I’d rather have a season with Robs, Russells, Parvatis, and Amandas, than one with Vecepias, Natalies and Sandras.
Not sure if you’re talking about him flipping to join Colby and Rupert or flipping back and taking out Rupert. Unless I’m mis-remembering things, Joining up with them got Danielle out, which despite the bashing that ensued was a legitimately good play, I think. You find yourself #3 in a 3 person alliance, and it’s not a good spot to be in, so you break up the other two. Flipping on them and ousting Rupert got Sandra to stay which in Russell’s eyes was a good move, since she’d hoodwinked him into believing she couldn’t win. Granted, that was an ego-driven misconception, but still… with the choices in front of him, not a bad move. It also helped to get Parvati back in the Russell fold despite having lost her other half.
That won’t happen. Fireman Tom tried to play an UTR game, but couldn’t, because he was forced out into the open as a natural leader. There will always be a power vacuum, and someone will always rush to try to fill it. And if those leaders get chopped down on their way to the end, you’re going to have an interesting end game as a bunch of UTR players try to under-radar each other.
The second-to-last episode where he reached out to Rupert and Colby, then turned on Rupert a few hours later to knock him out.
Sort of. I don’t like Russell, but I really think his game just needed some tweaks here and there. Mainly in the form of controlling his temper and keeping his ego in check. Russell was not capable of doing that, but another player with a similar game might pull it off. Russell with a little more grace would be hard to beat.
(Hmmm. Come to think of it, Russell with a little more grace is basically Parvati, in terms of game-play.)
I was surprised at how much these seasoned players voted their emotions. I can see how Russell pushed it too far, but really though Parvati should win based on her overall game play.
I wonder how much we didn’t see. Russell seems like he’d really piss people off all day long in camp, especially if he’s the type to sit across from you and tell you how stupid you are. Probst saying, “this is how it is all.the.time.” was pretty telling.
Yes, but during those few hours, Parvati won immunity. If she hadn’t, Russell would’ve used Rupert and Colby to eliminate that threat. Once she did, he only two choices were: keep this new alliance and vote out Sandra or Jerri (the two who he wanted to take to the end) or jump back to the villains. Given his underestimation of Sandra, the choice was obvious.
This pissed me off when Probst said it. Look, if there’s a whole set of things that one player does all.the.time and pisses people off, we the viewing audience would like to see that, since it affects the game and the votes.
Keeping that a secret from us and then saying in the reunion “Just so you know, for those of you watching from home, this is how it was every single day” is annoying.
(I think a similar thing happened with Sugar on her first season. It looks like she was crying all the time, which pissed people off, and we didn’t know about that until the reunion)