Friendzone is your creation. There is no friendzone for us. There is “want to fuck” or “don’t want to fuck.”
See the difference?
It’s not an either/or thing; I want to be friends, or I want to have sex. It’s possible (and I think pretty common in these sorts of situations) to want both. And that means you’ll be disappointed when you find out the relationship won’t be romantic, but it doesn’t mean you were faking the friendship in order to get something else.
What would you call that, if not the “friendzone”?
Maybe I’m unusual but back when I dated if I said “I don’t want to date right now” I meant “I don’t want to date right now.” Yeah, maybe I’d meet a guy where the chemistry was so amazing that it looked to you like I was lying when I took advantage of it, but it did mean, at the moment I said it, that the issue was the present and the near future. (Now, at that point going with some sort of guy looking for a date version of “are we there yet” that you get from kids on their way to Disneyworld - not a move that’s going to make that near term move any nearer - and probably going to get you to the friend zone - or actually not, because at that point, you’ve gotten creepy).
When I got asked out by guys I’d never date, I’d say “I’m really flattered, but you aren’t my type.” or “I don’t really feel any of that sort of chemistry, but I do like you as a person, and I hope we can stay friends” - and I MEANT it - some of those people disappeared from my life by their own choice (and I will say that a guy who likes you only if the end result is getting in your pants, but doesn’t find you an interesting enough person to call and say “a bunch of us are heading out to the movies, want to come” or when he sees you at a party three months later and ignores you as if you are shedding plague is insulting and jerkish) - several of those people are still friends of mine 30 years later (as are several “I hope we stay friends” ex’s).
Call it being friends. You wanted something different and she didn’t but you both decided to remain friends.
Rejecting a relationship or possible romantic connection is absolutely not insulting and jerkish. Similarly, rejecting a friendship is not insulting and jerkish. It’s okay to want to date, or to not want to date. It’s also okay to want to be friends, or to not want to be friends.
If you aren’t interested in being friends with me, why are you interested in dating me. What is dating if not a friendship with sex. And if we take out the sex, and you don’t want the friendship, then all you really wanted was the sex - you don’t care about me as a person, only as a potential sex partner - an object. And yes, to me - and to almost every woman I hang out with regularly, that is insulting and jerkish. (And, we do mention it to each other, and you do get a reputation - so if your dating pool is small - like college or work - tread carefully with that behavior). And it seems to cut generational boundaries, I drive my fifteen year old daughter and her friends around, and they don’t like it either. (“what an ass, he asked me out and I said I was seeing someone else, and now he won’t even say hi to me in the hallway.”)
That doesn’t mean you need to fit me in your life every Friday night and have long conversations about nail polish colors, but if we’ve established some sort of friendship from class, or work, or getting coffee at the same shop every morning at the same time, your behavior should suddenly not flip to “pariah” when I say no.
Now, if you are walking up to strange women in bars and asking them out because you like how they look and because they smiled at you - no you don’t owe them anything. And they don’t owe you anything. But those aren’t the women who are going to say “I’m not interested right now” because they don’t know you from Adam.
While I agree in spirit with what you’re saying Dangerosa, it can be hard to hang out with someone you feel strongly attracted to knowing that your affection you feel will never go in the direction you want it to. Hanging out can be like picking at wound so it never heals. A person might need some distance after a romantic rejection because it hurts to be around someone you have deep feelings for who doesn’t have those feelings in return.
In other words, someone might pull away for reasons that protect themselves rather as an insult to you (generic you).
Yep. This is what I’m saying. People can be complicated and have complicated feelings, and it may or may not be right for them to be friends or not be friends. It’s not an insult.
It’s fine to want a romantic relationship and not want a friendship, and it’s fine to want a friendship and not a romantic relationship. Neither is an insult.
How do people who have this problem manage to work with people they are strongly attracted to? I used to work with a guy where it was pretty obvious we had a mutual thing, but we were both married. We still managed to work together, and be friends. It would have been pretty difficult to spend 40 hours a week with a guy I had to work closely with if I let this get overwhelming. Seems like this would have far more reaching impact if you couldn’t keep this under control then “hey, we are all going for happy hour after work, want to come” being painful.
(Still friends, fifteen years later. I’m still married. He divorced his wife and his girlfriend is lovely. And I still find him attractive).
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do if you need to keep your job. Maybe your friend was particularly strong. All people don’t deal with things the same way. You can’t measure what’s expected behavior by the strongest or toughest people. Or, sometimes people have options to not have to fight the hard feelings. I know people who chose to leave jobs because of these situations, because they could and it was worth it.
Bottom line is, if someone chooses to have some distance it doesn’t inherently mean they didn’t care about you sincerely. Friendship goes both ways: if you’re their friend try to understand where they’re coming from and what their needs might be.
Let’s stop talking about friend zoning people and start talking about fuck zoning them!
I’m just wondering how these people function. I find myself attracted to about 1 in 10 people. I had an intern who was so hot it was a challenge to have a conversation with him (he was 24, I’m almost 50 and married and his boss). Yet, you know, he’s a human being and I’m a grown up, so I treated him like a human being, not like a sex toy. It must be really, really hard to function if you can’t treat people who you’d like to have sex with respectfully if sex isn’t an option.
To find someone so attractive that you’d date them, then treat them like they don’t exist when they’d say no is not treating them with respect, no matter how much it hurts. Its being a child. Again, I’m not saying you have to be besties. I’m saying that “we are all going out after the final class, want to come?” is how you treat other people you like, even if it hurts that they won’t have sex with you ever. And that is the bottom line.
Some people have no problem with it. Some people do. Some people just suck up and deal with it with co-workers or friends, and others will take action up to and including quitting their job to avoid it.
I’m casting no judgment whatsoever on women who don’t want relationships, as well as men who don’t want friendships, and men who do want friendships even if they are still attracted. You shouldn’t either, IMO.
That might be your bottom line, but I think it’s wrong. You’re analogizing to situations where you haven’t been rejected. The rejection can be a pretty major part of the thing: you’ve put yourself out there, made yourself vulnerable, and the rejection can sting. That’s not at all the same as keeping your trap shut about a clearly inappropriate potential relationship.
You’re not entitled to someone else’s sex, and if they don’t offer it, they’re not a jerk. You’re not entitled to someone else’s invitation to an event, and if they don’t offer it, they’re not a jerk. Insisting they’re a jerk if they won’t have sex with you, or if they won’t invite you out with the gang, is opposite sides of the same entitled attitude, in my opinion.
Who is advocating treating people like sex toys? I certainly am not.
Who is advocating treating people like they don’t exist, or with no respect? Saying “I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be friends” is not disrespectful, and not treating someone like they don’t exist. Declining to go out for drinks after class is not disrespectful or treating someone like they don’t exist.
I’m sure they function just fine, even if they aren’t living up to your standards. I have a lot of compassion for folks experiencing heartache and rejection and am ok if it’s not all about my feelings. If I cared enough about them to be friends then I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they weren’t assholes. The real players are pretty obvious. Most people fall in the middle- they don’t treat you like you don’t exist (will say hi in the hall) but don’t want to hang out either.
They are.
The usual suspects are here giving you life lessons on how women aren’t just fuck toys. Even though I read nothing in your posts that would indicate that is all you want. Ignore them.
She said she wasn’t interested at the moment because she just got out of a relationship, You don’t want to date someone just out of a relationship anyways. Might explain the strange signals.
Keep on being friends with her if you want but put the romantic notions aside and move on.
Women want men to hang out and be “friends” even if they are not deemed to be datable. I have to assume this is one of those things about men that women just don’t “get”. This is not a desirable or tenable situation for many men as they are now relegated to the status of unfuckable by a woman they are attracted to, but are still expected to want to be attentive and engaged in a friend relationship.
For many (not all) men developing a relationship based on a sexual attraction to a desired women is very different than a “friend” relationship on multiple levels. Even if the relationship has the same elements of conversation, emotional sharing, and shared experiences it’s quite different from the man’s perspective. If sex is off the table and the woman still wants to be friends it’s not like the man can turn off his impulses like a light switch. In many cases the best thing to do is disconnect from the desired woman interaction-wise as much as possible, which pisses them off, but from the man’s perspective it’s just going to be frustrating.
And yes, beyond sexual attraction a man can also be naturally attentive and emotionally attracted to a woman who would NOT be his first choice for a friend relationship. Friend and lover are often on separate tracks.
Men desiring a romantic relationship have a limited amount of time and resources to pursue women who might be interested in them and available. If a man is interested in a sexual relationship why expend that time on being buddies with unavailable women and frustrating yourself in the bargain?
Women you are not particularly attracted to sexually, but are friends with based on intellectual attraction or shared interests etc. is a whole different kettle of fish, and you can be buddies with those women all day long.
This is a really good point. None of the examples you gave were actually about hanging together after being rejected. Unrequited love or a crush from afar are different than opening yourself up, being rejected, and then having the burden of hanging out to prove you were sincere. Sometime people just need time to heal after that, and maybe can go back to being friends later.