I don’t question whether that’s how it looks from the woman’s point of view, or from the point of view of an “unbiased” third party. But, from the point of view of the male in question, I am compelled to believe that it happens as described byIvoryTowerDenizen as often as not:
Say you have a guy who finds a woman attractive, and tries to form a friendship with her. Mind you, the more time that elapses as the friendship is developing, chances are the further infatuated the male is becoming, and the deeper his feelings are growing. As time goes on, he finally bites up the courage to let her know how he feels about her. It turns out that she doesn’t have those kind of feelings for him, and lets him down “easy” or, at least, as easy as is practicable. As IvoryTowerDenizen pointed out, it’s not abnormal for the hurt of that rejection to be too much for the man to be able to continue with the friendship; to remain in her orbit would be like picking at wounds, and not allowing them to heal. Often, space is needed. And, sometimes, “space” looks like the cold shoulder.
Again, I can understand how, from the woman’s point of view, that would look like the man was only “acting” like he wanted to be a friend, for the purposes of trying to bed her, but I maintain that that point of view is not necessarily accurate. Sometimes, it may be true, I’m not trying to make the case that it never happens. Sometimes, though, it may be that the guy is in too deep and, while he wanted a friendship and a relationship, he isn’t capable of compartmentalizing those emotions well enough to be able to handle the friendship in the absence of a relationship, or the ideal of same.
I don’t think anybody is playing anybody. For better or worse young to middle aged heterosexual men looking for relationships don’t usually choose to hang out with attractive datable women in their own age cohort women as one on one platonic social buddies. It can happen, but it’s unusual. Women enjoy the focused social attention of men in their own age cohort, but not the strings it often comes attached with. I get why they’re pissed when the man withdraws his attention post rejection, but pretending it was all some big scam is disingenuous.
If a reasonably attractive, datable woman has a man paying notable interpersonal time and attention to her beyond random flirting and she doesn’t “get” that he is quite probably interested in her romantically then she is either very young and inexperienced or being willfully ignorant.
See above. You will never hear “friendzoned” used positively because it is by definition a negative term. Just because it contains the word “friend” in it does not mean there is anything actually friendly or positive about it.
Did you complain about how these women had cruelly manipulated you into being their friend? Because if not, I wasn’t talking about you.
It sounds like you realize that this was an obligation that existed in your own mind and that these women weren’t actually forcing you to be their friend. Men who complain about being “stuck in the friendzone” don’t seem to see it that way. If one person doesn’t want to be friends with another person then I think it’s best that they not try to fake it. If a friendship suddenly cools then this may of course be sad if one person wanted it to continue as before, but not all friendships are forever and I don’t think the other person has done anything wrong unless they’re a jerk about it.
The only person here who I see acting like they were the victim of some big scam is the OP, who accused a woman of “playing” him after she turned him down romantically.
What is she supposed to do if she does get it? Do you think the OP would have felt better if the woman had told him there was no way she was going out with him before he’d even asked her?
Yeah, there’s several conversations going on, and I may have read things into what you said that weren’t there; sorry!
Looks to me like there’s a continuum.
-No point in being friends with a cute woman if you’re a single het guy EXCEPT to get into her pants. She turns you down, drop her and move on.
-If a cute woman hangs out with you and you’re a single het guy, but then she turns you down, she was playing you!
-If you make a move on a single woman who’s your friend, and she turns you down, no harm no foul, and if you don’t feel comfortable in the friendship after that, that’s how it goes, again no harm no foul.
-If you make a move on a single woman who’s your friend, and she turns you down, and you leave the friendship, you were never her friend in the first place.
Third position is the one that makes the most sense to me. First and second are obnoxious, and I tend to think the fourth is just plain incorrect.
A good question. I think, frankly, this is the core question this entire discussion revolves around. If a guy is attentive and interesting* enough * it’s probably in her best interests not to overtly discourage him unless he presses her to take the relationship to the next level and she does not want to. To paraphrase Chris Rock in general a woman is as interested, or not, in a man as her dating options allow her to be, and most savvy women have a pretty good handle on what their near range options are and how choosy they can be. If Mr. Right is not on the horizon getting attention from Mr. Right Now is good enough.
Is this wrong if no sex is never going to be on the menu? Not really, young heterosexual women need male social attention in order to hone their interpersonal skills in dealing with men and making choices so this practice is essential. IMO it’s mostly the man’s job to discern if there’s a chance for his goals to be met.
In this context being attractive, or even if not a beauty being fun, engaging and socially approachable is a big help for a woman because it gives you hard experience in being approached regularly and how to handle men. If you are a man who is shy, inexperienced, or like the OP kind of oblivious you are at the opposite end of the spectrum and will desperately grasp at anything to avoid facing the fact that a romance is not on the menu anytime in the foreseeable future. It may not seem fair for the desperately clueless to be left spinning but at some point they have to grow up.
I think a subtle way of rejecting some one who may be to affectionate for you is to say things like “You’re like a brother (or sister, depending on the circumstance) to me…”
That right there set’s a very clear tone towards the nature of the relationship that the girl (or guy) wants.
But I wouldn’t hate on a person for not thinking of that, it’s not like an obvious solution. (Sincerely, not being snarky.)
There is no confusion here at all. And I’m going to do you a big favor and help you save a lot of time. She’s a flake, move on. I don’t like her response to you first of all, that was pretty rude with “I had a feeling that you’d ask me out, but…”. No mentioned of how you might feel about this or anything, it’s all about her. Save yourself a lot of effort and heartache and just move on. Don’t reply to her any longer. Unfriend her, and when she calls look at caller ID and don’t pick-up the calls, and don’t return the calls. If you see her, just say “hello” and don’t spend time with her. It isn’t about if you were played or will you be, she’s a flake and has no regard for your feelings at all by her response. It doesn’t matter if she likes you or not, she isn’t worthy. I know this is a hard thing to hear, but it doesn’t matter, you went down the wrong road, it’s time to put the car in reverse and get out of this street and along your way. Please don’t listen to any advice or future advice about giving her space or you need to wait this thing out, and all that, that’s going to make you even more unhappy in the end. Move on.
The OP is looking for a romantic relationship and there is nothing wrong with that. I don’t like the idea that because he was attracted to her, that is some how scheming and he deserves to be treated badly by her with those rude comments she said when he asked her out. He sounded like a gentleman here. He wasn’t asking just for a hook-up like some jerks do.
Taking her at her word isn’t important. It was her actions and language she used towards him when asked out. She’s rude, self-centered and doesn’t care about his feelings. Even if she was only seeking friendship 100%, that was not a friendly response. She isn’t worthy by this response of being pursued for romantic interests or as a friend. You want people to treat you like a real person, with feelings, and it doesn’t matter if they want to be friends or become romantic. It’s alarming how many people here are overlooking that. It’s the part of the reason why the divorce rate is so high, they entirely ignore the signs if someone is a flake or not.
Or this: she just broke up with an ex and is using the OP to fill in the gaps and stringing him along taking advantage of his interest in her and good nature until he wises up and moves on.
After all her other options have been exhausted or was too lazy to find someone else, she selected you like a honorable mention door prize. This whole concept of Courtly Love is really dysfunctional. I have to ask you though, when you first asked her out, was she rude like this woman was? Likely not. Glad it worked out for you, but I have to say, that’s a pretty pathetic role model to follow as advice.
Oh, this is good solid advice. Reminds me of how my friend met his wife. As soon as they were introduced by a mutual friend, he reached over and slipped his tongue down her throat, and before she could take a breath asked her out and she immediately said yes. :eek:
