threemae, I’m certain there are parents who’d pay a fee in order to have their children watched so they could get a checkup. However it’s accomplished, (having several doctors “chip in” to get a daycare service for their patients sounds most practical) it’s a needful thing. Sadly, more and more people are “isolated” from their neighbors and live far away from their family, so they can’t get a baby sitter. (There are actually people who don’t use daycare also.) For numerous reasons, it would be practical, and bring in lots of business, to have a way for a patient’s children to be looked after so they can get a checkup. I wasn’t asking the doctor to eat the costs, I thought it went without saying that it would cost a reasonable amount extra to visit that particular doctor. (Maybe with a sliding scale for those who are impoverished?) I also thought it went without saying that people would be willing to pay for the added service too. They already do in a way, paying a baby sitter to watch your child adds to the cost of a doctor’s office visit.
Don’t get me started on the little monsters. :mad:
I work in a store selling music equipment with a showroom that’s all of maybe 20’x20’. It’s always a fun day when some clueless parent brings in 3-4 of their preciouses to run amok through the limited space we have. Never mind that there are stacks of p.a. speakers, guitars hanging on walls, and all sorts of other goodies that can be pulled down on little Dumas Jr.’s head. Not that I’m scared for little Dumas; I don’t want my shit broken or banged up.
One man completely lost his mind one day when, after his trio of hellions had already grubbed-up everything in the store and had taken my open/closed sign off the door, if he could leave them with me while he popped across the street to look at another store.
I gave him the appropriate look that should indicate, “Sir, you’ve just lost your ever-lovin’ mind”. Maybe I didn’t pull it off quite right as he stood half-way out the door giving me a hope-she-thinks-I’m-cute-enough-to-pull-this-off grin.
I then told him, “No Sir. We’re not insured for that” to which he responded, “But I’m only going to be a minute”.
Now at this point I’m thinking I could take all three of the little hell-spawn out in about 25 seconds and have a very generous 35 seconds in which to dispose of the bodies and begin to consider the possibilities.
I shook myself from my delicious daydream, managed a tight-lipped grin and another, “No, Sir.”
Would you believe he got offended? :rolleyes:
On the other hand, the other month a lady was in the store with her son who was such a well behaved little gentleman, he simply amazed me. You better believe I let his mother know what a great job she was doing, and made sure he heard me telling her too. The smiles on both their faces were absolutely glowing.
& on preview: Nanny 911 - Love it and I don’t even have kids.
:rolleyes:
Funny you should mention that. Just this morning I stopped into a shop I frequent to find a mother and her early-teenage daughter just leaving. When they were gone the proprietor told me the woman had dropped the girl off to try on boots while momsy took another daughter to her activity in the next town over, came back about an hour later, and hauled the girl out without buying anything.
The Hawthorn Mall in Vernon Hills (suburban Chicago) has a service that watches kids while mommy shops! I haven’t used it, mine are too young, but isn’t that a great idea!
I used to watch the Nanny shows with great anticipation, until the night my kids started paying attention to and imitating the ill-behaved brats! First commercial break, my daughter walked up & slapped me, just like the little girl on TV was doing to her mommy! Now I have to settle for reading the books.
In defense of (most) parents, it isn’t that any particular task is difficult, it’s that you’re so worn out from the unrelenting demands. Think Chinese water torture. That’s why connecting with extended family, who can provide love and discipline, is a must. As long as they’re not a bunch of bums.
This afternoon, we saw a small child (perhaps 6 or 7) throw the lid from her cup out into the street. Dave bent over and told her, very nicely, that there was a trash can not ten feet away, didn’t she think she should put it in there? The child completely ignored him. There were no parents around that I could see, and we were in a very busy part of Baltimore city.
I just don’t get people. My mother would have tanned my hide had I littered, and ignored a grown-up.
This is not a reason to eschew parenting; it just means you will have to do a better job than that airhead. Believe me, had either of my kids done anything remotely like that, or had even begun the process, she would have been swooped up and packed back into the car so fast she wouldn’t have known what happened. And it would have been a loooooong time before she went anyplace.
My ex wife and her Mom are nice people but more premissive than I with the kids. They were very much the “oh they’re just kids” type while I tried to teach kids how to behave in public and respect others property. {you never grab stuff that isn’t yours } One thing my son used to do at public places like family gtherings or anyplace was climb onto the hood of a car to sit. I had spoken to him on several occasions telling him that was inappropriate but since Mom and Grandma never corrected him for that then I was just the grouch. Ay one family gathering he climbed up on someones hood and before I could say anything the owner of the car said "Hey I want you off my car " in a polite but firm tone. It startled the crap out of him and I was very grateful to have my discipline reenforced by someone else. The point being. Don’t hesitate to speak to kids if they’re messing with stuff they shouldn’t be. {especially your stuff}
Not all parents will appreciate it but some {like me} will appreciate the affirmation.
In response to WhyNot’s post about it being the neighbors, onlookers, and various third parties who have changed: you bet we have. Why? Because parents these days are litigious as hell. Third parties are more likely to be yelled at and threatened with lawsuits or arrest than thanked for helping to discipline the children of others.
A good family friend of ours taught for over 30 years. She retired a couple of weeks ago. Her reason? “The kids are the same,” she says, “but the parents are so different. It used to be that if a child was flunking my class or misbehaving, the parents wanted to work with me to change their child’s behavior. Now, when I give a child an F or discipline them for bad behavior, the parents call to defend their children and argue with me about why they should not be treated so harshly.” She found that, without parent support, it was almost impossible to do her job with these problem kids effectively.
A related story:
Yesterday, my mom and my two sisters and I went to DSW, a large discount shoe warehouse. When we went in, a little two year old boy was running around the store, screaming at the top of his lungs. My mom was initially annoyed by this, and looked around to see if she could figure out who his mother was so that she might speak to her. But, try as she might, Mom couldn’t figure out who the mother of this child was. There were only about six adults in the store, and not one of them was paying a bit of attention to the little boy.
Mom started to worry that the boy had been left behind by his parent, and so, instead of browsing for shoes with us, she started to follow the boy around the (very large) store to make sure that he had someone looking after him. He went all the way out to the front door, and started to open it! My mom went over and stopped him from exiting the store. He ran off to play some more. At that point, Mom asked me what I thought she should do.
I told Mom to tell the clerk that there was a boy who had been left behind, because it was so obvious that none of the other patrons was this boy’s parent. No one but my mom was paying a bit of attention to him. Mom hesitated because she hates to make a scene, but she kept watching the boy as we shopped.
After about fifteen minutes of this, the little boy runs up to a (very pregnant) woman, yells “Mommy!” to get her attention, and starts pulling on her dress. The woman never even looked up from the shoes she was perusing. The woman was very, very well-dressed, and had her makeup, hair, and nails done. She did not look harried or hurried or in need of a break. She obviously had a fair amount of disposable income. She seemed to be having quite a good time shopping. And, apparently, she thinks she likes kids well enough to have another.
Mom went over and politely suggested that she should keep a closer eye on her son, because she’d had to stop him from running out into the parking lot. The Fancy Lady bit my mom’s head off.
Biggest change is in the bystanders? I don’t think so.
It’s unfortunate that your careing mother was so ill treated by someone she was trying to be good to. The other day there were two little boys under five roaming the storre playing with merchandise while Dad {a young yuppy looking guy} was in another section of the store. When they pulled a guitar dow off the display I took it away from them. No way to tell where Dad was so we paged him and he came and got them. Never apologized.
Still, even with rude responses from irresponsible parents I encourage people like your Mom to speak their peice. KNow that you’re right. Perhaps if these poeple get enough comments they’ll begin to think.
On an unrelated note. It amuses me somewhat to see brats of all nationalities. For some reason I expect children of immigrants to be better behaved and them to be stricter parents. Call me prejudice. When I see little demons being brats in a another language I just smile and think what a good job we’ve done americanizing them.
Q.N. Jones, I agree with you that fear of parental reaction is one factor which has changed the bystanders. It’s the same root of the parental fear of disciplining in public for fear of abuse charges*. I think some other factors include neighbors who work long hours and then come home and stay indoors, so neighbors don’t get to know each other like they used to. It’s always harder to break that social barrier of politeness and say something negative to a person we don’t know. (It’s probably a cave-man holdover - don’t snarl at the other tribe or they might come over here and kill us all.) There’s also a strong current of personal responsibility in our culture, which can be good or can turn into “this is all that person’s fault, and they need to realize the problem and fix it on their own.” And of course, there’s the Somebody Else’s Problem device which keeps us from dealing with things that are Somebody Else’s Problem. “Someone” should give that parent a talking to, but not me!
But I also think that, just like the kids, if the parents were made accountable for their (lack of) actions on a regular basis, the negative behavior would stop. Maybe not. I’m an optimist sometimes.
Although there are far more people in this four page thread who have “This kid was a brat and I was just speechless and I should have said something but didn’t” stories than have “I was afraid I’d be sued” *or *“Damn right I spoke up!” stories.
Really, is getting a dirty look or even a chewing out by an irrational parent not worth preventing the damage of your stuff? Furthermore, for every parent out there who’ll be an idiot about it, there’s one like me and **fessie **and Hokkaido Brit who appreciate the reinforcement of our teachings. If a child’s behavior bothers or damages you, you have every right to speak up. And, frankly, if you don’t phsyically touch the child, there’s nothing the cops or lawyers can do, even if the crazy parent threatens to call them.
*note: lots of the parents talked about in this thread don’t appear afraid, they appear honestly self-absorbed or ignorant of good parenting techniques. I get that.
I was involved in a situation several years ago where I didn’t react because of fear of being accused of trying to abduct a child. I was at a recreation area on a local lake enjoying the sun and a good book when I noticed a little girl (maybe 3-4 years old) by herself a good distance from the large group of partiers nearby. No one seemed to be paying any attention to this child, and I started kind of keeping an eye on her because she kept edging closer to the water. She kept getting closer and closer to the water and I was getting more and more nervous - I wanted to get her, but was afraid that someone in the crowd of drunks would look up, see me with the little girl and freak out. Finally, after about 45 minutes, someone in the group sees the little girl and comes to get her.
I would not have let the child go in the water, no matter what her non-attention-paying drunken mother would have said.
But Snakescatlady, why would you need to even approach her? “Hey, kid! Yeah, you! You’re too close to the water without your Mommy or Daddy!” or shout to the drunks, “Hey! Can your kid swim?” and point to the urchin making her way to water’s edge. Or shout to the lifeguard and point at the kid.
Any of them would take less energy and time than watching the kid like a hawk for 45 minutes.
I know, and I find it so frustrating. Although I do thing the “I should have said something, why didn’t I?” response is fueled by the attitude, both general and from parents, that we ought to mind our own business in situations concerning kids not our own.
If A child is misbehaving in public and disturbing me while the parent is totally oblivious thenit is my business. If the child is friggin with my property then I have every right to say something and should. I don’t recommend offering unsolicited child rearing tips at every opportunity. A lot of the examples here are people directly affected by the childs behavior. If my child is disturbing others then I hope they speak up
There are some situations in which you simply cannot tell a family with an obnoxious kid that they are being obnoxious-for example during a public function such as my ruined graduation. I don’t need to stand up in the middle of my own lawschool graduation and tell umpteen families in the galleries that they ought to take their squalling infants outside so I can enjoy my own (very expensively purchased) graduation. I couldn’t stand up and say “shut your kids up or take them outside” because, you know, I might have ruined the whole damn thing, and I doubt people wanted to start fights with other people (who tend to be protective about their kids) at a such a solemn moment so it’s best to keep your mouth shut rather than starting a brawl. That’s partly why parents are expected to parent their own children and not rely entirely on the courtesy of strangers. Because in some situations it simply cannot or should not be done by other people.
I just wanted to mention to cosmodan that you’re totally in the right for not letting your son sit on other people’s cars - the sliding on and off scratches the crap out of the paint. You might want to mention that to his “permissive” mother - this isn’t just an opinion - your son is really doing damage here.
We were at a play area in the mall today, it’s a lot of fun, plenty of things to climb on. And one mommy brought her stroller within its confines, which you’re really not supposed to do, but hey I think she had a lot of gear on it & just didn’t feel safe leaving it unattended.
At one point my son took an interest in the stroller & knocked it over. And it’s just the easiest, most natural thing in the world to grab your kid, say “No, that’s not yours”, put the thing back, and redirect the child to an appropriate activity. How can people not be doing this? It’s so basic!
For people who’re put off of parenting b/c of seeing tons o’ brats out there, don’t be. It is a ton of work, but it’s also sooooo much fun. And correcting them is no big deal, just an ongoing process of education.
FTR, my kids were playing on the same equipment as some older children, and their Mom kept hers from running into mine. There are LOTS of very considerate, conscientious parents out there.
At that point, your mother should have informed Fancy Lady that FL was lucky that Mom was not some pervert who might have kidnapped her child.
My sister used to have a habit of wandering off from my mother-she’d NEVER stay close (to the point that Mom ended up getting one of those wrist leashes). One day, my mother finally grabbed hold of Baby Sis and said, “You know, Baby Sis, someday, someone bad might come and take you!”
At that moment, a sweet, elderly grandmother type came over and said, “That’s right-I was going to take you away from your mother and you’d never see her again!” At that Baby Sis jumped, and ran behind my mother. Mom thanked the woman and was able to continue shopping without Baby Sis running off.
True, in your situation when there are miltiple offenders what can you do? I’m speaking primarily of those one on one instances.