You are probably right that the guy wasn’t an asshole, but a good support person should know that some poor guy stuggling with your companies equipment is not someone to be mused with. Maybe next time I don’t spec your stuff.
This is precisely the attitude that makes me think that you need to find another job in production or something. Let’s see, tech support gives me the ommitted information. Now I don’t need to call about this problem any more. The rest of your customers are still in the dark. From this you deduce that I should call your sales staff to have the documentation corrected for the rest of your customers sake. That is a poor attitude that reflects a lack of dilligence on your part to correct a problem with your companies product. If you were on my support staff and I found out that you were aware of a persistent issue and failed to inform the appropriate department on behalf of the people that buy our products I would show you to the door. I should call your sales department? It is in your interest to have the manual changed. Not mine.
As a customer, I often have to tackle the reverse problem with tech support. I have a problem, I am technically knowledgable, I have tried all the first and second steps, accessed the company’s web site, read the manual, and tried a few tricks suggested by my experience.
When that doesn’t work, I contact tech support. Often they want me to follow steps 1…n on their beginner’s list; Is it plugged in?
Yes, Asshole, I just described a load of technical details that I could not have obtained without it being plugged in.
An hour later, we have tried all the official tests, and we are exactly where we were when I first called.
I would be glad to work with these people (and 80% of the time I have discovered a bug, sometimes an unknown one) to help them help me, but, like Rodney, I don’t get no respect.
Not a fun or productive way to spend a day.
It wouldn’t make much sense for the tech to just read you random solutions out of the database. They need to go over the testing in order to correctly identify the problem, then give you that solution. Also, just because you’ve done some testing doesn’t necessarily mean their database holds a simple solution.
To add my own rant (I was a tech for several years, once upon a time): It really bugged me when customers would lie to me. Why would they call in at all, if they are too proud to admit exactly what they’ve done or are doing? You tell them to draw something with the mouse, and you hear them typing instead. Why ask for my advice if you don’t believe my troubleshooting is leading us toward a solution.
I once had a 20 minute call in which it was obvious that the callers CTRL key was stuck down. I told her to try hitting both CTRL keys repeatedly to try to pop them loose. No luck. She was convinced it was a problem with my software, even after I’d proved the problem happened in all her programs. When she was about to get angry with me and ask for a management callback, I discovered that she hadn’t believed me the nine times I’d told her to make sure to work the CTRL keys on both ends of her keyboard. She thought I was lying when I said there were two, and had never noticed the one on the right. Clicking it once fixed the whole thing. Then she got mad at me because she’d spent so long on the phone.
The amazing thing is that sometimes, I miss tech support. It was pretty satisfying at times.
Well,Hank Fescue, I was resisting pegging you as one of those “customer is always right” morons, but I guess that I am wrong. For the record (and I hope that you are sitting down), the customer is not always right.
For your information, I am an excellent tech, and have been for many years. I dutifully report not only persistent problems (such as bugs, and UI issues) but also pass along customer suggestions. I do this because I actually care about helping the people that call. I also try very hard to magically intuit their particular technical level of expertise, and tailor my conversation with them accordingly. While doing all of this, I also try to gauge (with only tone of voice to go on) if this is a friendly person that needs some banter to feel as if they were well served, a business-like person that wants to briskly solve the problem, or some syphilitic prick that really just wants to yell at me because the big nasty computer hurt their feelings.
What you need to realize is that once the company has your money, for the most part they could give a rat’s ass about you. Also for the record, there is not a mutherfucking thing that tech support can do about it. If you are one of those folks that wish to give tech support crap because they are the face of the company that you can gain access to, then I repeat that you are one of the folks that make our jobs hard. Also, this kind of self-important bullshit makes other folk waiting for my help wait longer than they need to.
Shit man, just in talking about tech support in an abstract way for a company and a person that you know nothing about you are already resorting to “maybe I don’t buy your product” and “perhaps you should find another job” to say nothing of the “I would fire you if you worked for me”. Just pathetic.
I have absolutely no worries about loosing my job because a manual is well written. There will always be plenty of morons to keep me occupied. I am guessing that you were probably expressing yourself in an aggressive way to the victim in the “asshole central” call canter that you called. Perhaps you should call his supervisor or some shit. :rolleyes:
So which is it dude? You gonna do your job or do I do it for you?
You have a list of random solutions for a known problem?
Yep, you worked for tech support.
Didn’t listen to what was said and then went into a monologue.
SIGH, I don’t know. Perhaps it is just me expressing myself poorly. I don’t want to think that you are deliberately misunderstanding.
I will try to explain.
You see, the two quotes that you seem to imply are contradicting each other, are not. I will assume ignorance on your part as to how the whole industry works.
It is, as you state, in the interest of Tech Support that manuals (to use the specific example that you are talking about) be well written. What you don’t understand is that the only thing (generally speaking) that is less important to most companies than customers after they have shelled out cash is what Tech Support needs to keep you folks happy.
So sure, bugs come up, people have suggestions or other persistent issue, we can dutifully put those in the correct database that the company has for just that purpose. However, usually for these little nit like things, there is not a huge payoff for the company.
People are going to call no matter what. Why spend all of the extra money even sending errata sheets to folks?
All of that being said, good job finding minutia to focus on.
Sorry, wouldn’t want you focus on those pesky little details. Even though that is your freaking job. :eek:
This obtuse behavior on your part is really starting to feel deliberate. You seem to be taking a small paragraph or phrase from my posts out of context and then focusing on them. No wonder you have issues when you call Tech Support.
Try rereading some of the posts, and perhaps even thinking about some of the information that is in them that you may not have know before.
Yeah, I’ve been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt too, but now I’m leaning towards “deliberately obtuse”.
Heh. That wasn’t there when I posted that last. I’ll stop helping now.
So not to take anything out of context here is what you have said.
Now, how is that the statemants do not contradict? Explain. First you say that you will help me but if I want manual changes I have to take it sales. When called on that you come up with “I make suggestions and…yada, yada”. So which is it? I am not being obtuse, I am trying to understand you.
Then you say that there is not a huge payoff for the company for taking care of the nit picky things. Actually, this type of thing is one of the single biggest factors in the longevity of your company which is the ultimate payoff. If you don’t take care of the nit picky stuff and stand behind your products your huge payoff days are numbered.
Next you question the need to make accurate manuals at all because people are “going to call anyway”. You have a cite for that? I assert that is ignorance on your part. If you have a correct manual with correct adendums it will decrease the volume of calls for issues not covered in the manual. Do you really not see correct manuals as a way to decreased calls?
This all gets back to your general attitude about your job. “Don’t worry about correct information they’re gonna call anyway”. If everyone had this attitude I suppose there would be no manuals at all and we could just call you and let you hold our hands through the entire process. That is where you are headed with that type of attitude.
Jesus, If I took a call that went like this thread, I’d ask the caller if they wanted to talk to my supervisor. In fact, I have and I did!
I hate talking to pricks who call me with attitude before we do any troubleshooting. Especially the ones who have to tell me that this is their 5th call to tech support, and that we’re all morons, and want to talk to my supervisor before we do any troubleshooting.
I’m very lucky. After 2 years supporting Microsoft products for a major ISP, I got onto a sweet project with several motion picture studios. I still do tech support, but it’s a new project with a very small staff. We did extensive beta testing with the software developers. We have access to the developers as well as network operations. And the best part is that when we report a problem, they check on it within 15 minutes. I will often get a reply from them within an hour and I see that my suggestions are actually implemented.
I enjoy working with people who have technical experience. It saves me time and I like it when I can tell someone to log on to our website rather than “click on the blue e icon. On your desktop. Now, do you see the address bar at the top of the window?” I don’t mind helping someone who doesn’t know their way around a PC, it just makes my job easier when they do.
What I mind is people who tell me “I’m a Unix database admin. Your software doesn’t work.” then get upset when I start troubleshooting from the beginning. Oh, you know everything. Then why are you wasting my time? Look, I don’t know Unix or PHP, but I know my job and our software. I’m not going to tell you how to compile a kernel or code a database. If I need help with my Unix and I call you, I’m gonna do exactly what you tell me. You want help with my software, we’re going to play the game by my book.
Remember Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction? That’s right, I’m the Wolf. I’m not here to say please, I’m here to tell you what to do. If my help is not appreciated, lots of luck, fellas. Now, pretty please with sugar on top, clean the fucking car.
If I tell you that you need to open port 443 bi-directional on your firewall, don’t expect me to walk you through it. I don’t work for the company who makes your firewall. Yes, I got my MCSE years ago, but I can’t help you with your proxy server either. I can’t do much for download speed issues either. Call your IT department and if they won’t let you have that port open, maybe you should have treated them better than you treat me.
I think perhaps what he’s saying is that he passes on the bugs and errors and customer suggestions to the appropriate people, but they don’t give a rat’s ass about what Tech Support says, but perhaps if the appropriate people were to hear the suggestions directly from a customer, they’d take it seriously.
I can buy that.
That puts me back to not buying your product. If you don’t give a rats ass about the practical implemantation issues raised by the people who you have hired to deal with those issues then I am looking for another supplier. Claims of service after the sale are generated because they know that is what people want. Make good on it.
Well, let’s see…he says:
And I see that you’ve already quoted this part, so you know he said it. I also see that you picked a fight with Binarydrone over it.
So, Hank, did you get mad at a support tech?
Yes, you did! Even though “When I called tech support the guy quickly got me through.”, you had to badger him with “where this procedure was documented in the manual.” So, Kudos to the tech for knowing something that’s not in the manual! He’s really on the ball! but no, Mr. Fescue looked less than omniscient and omnipotent in front of his client! So the tech responded with the kind of remark he’d make to his friend, and for that you brand him an asshole! The gall of this lowly phone monkey, not scraping low enough in front of you!!! Doesn’t he know who you are?
And now that you’ve found another person who does tech support for somebody (it doesn’t matter that this is not the same guy you had a conflict with or that he doesn’t even work for the same company), you’re gonna tell this punk how you feel, dammit! What a BIG man you are!
Often the developers do care very much what the customer thinks, but suggestions can be either impractical or impossible to implement. We put any documentation errata in release notes until changes could be made but hardly anyone ever read them. I worked for a small company and we absolutely gave a rats-ass.
But jeez, Hank, you want the technician to gauge your mood before making his (admittedly dumb) joke, blame the technician for omissions in the manual, call the place “asshole central,” and bandy about the threat of taking your business elsewhere. Look, you have every right to walk with your feet. The tech support department will no doubt wish you happy trails. Treating them with civility and respect instead of sarcastic derision might get you a better result.
By the way, I wish I had a dime for every time someone told me something wasn’t in the manual that was not only there, but indexed six ways from Sunday.
Well now, looks like I have found where the tech support geeks hang out.
I am sorry if I have come off as your worst nightmare of a call but please consider; I make calls to tech support lines for at least two dozen different manufacturers that I have used for years. I know several of the guys on a first name basis and ask for them. They are the ones that won’t give me that “is it plugged in?” shit. They are the ones who tell me what I need to hear and give me a call back on an issue that needs further attention. To tell you the truth, what set me off here was the comment about, “if you want a manual changed call sales”. I am not new at this and have seen this attitude of passing the buck before. The guys that have thier shit together would never give you that crap. They will get the adendum inserted and pass on a lesson learned to the rest of the customers so nobody else has to look stupid in front of the client. I am the guy in front of the consumer you know. The guy who read your specs that said it would do this, only your manual doesn’t even touch it. Now you tell me to call sales?
See, all you tech support guys have to be like us retail whores and develop Magical Anuses of Power so you can pull manual addendums out of it upon request.