On second thought, DtC is right! You should go with her and bring a gun along too, just in case. In fact, I’d even shoot to kill before you got to talk to him. You know, just to be safe. He could be an internet predator, after all.
Fair enough. I’ll assume then you have no opinions about other world leaders? They may live thousands of miles away but you inhabit the same world they do. If another Hitler starts making inroads to power, you’ll hold your tongue because he doesn’t work for you?
You can’t separate children from the world, either. If a teenager cranks his stereo at 3:00 AM and I live next door, I have a right to an opinion about the parenting that led to the behavior, for instance. And I don’t mean to be a crochety fart; I know teens etc. who are delightful. I have an opinion about that parenting as well.
Well we could compare notes. For instance, I read that if a child cleans his room and you reward him, he’s more likely to clean it again. Not true, huh?
I heard there’s something called the “terrible twos.” Not so?
Teens don’t actually rebel like it says in the textbooks?
Agreed. I don’t think her going is a good idea, but going with someone who’s got her back and cares about her seems smart. And again, having her own place to stay and not having to rely on the boy to take her places/let her stay with him seems really important.
I don’t give a flying fuck about other world leaders, and never comment on them.
You have a right to an opinion, sure. I’m just letting you know that it’s an uninformed opinion.
Complete hogwash.
Well, it lasts until they’re like 5, but it’s basically true. Knowing that, however, does not mean you know what it’s like to parent a two year old. I’ve read a lot of stuff written by Vietnam vets, that doesn’t mean I know what it was like to be there.
Same as above. Knowing teens will rebel does not mean you know what it’s like to parent one.
OK, look, Diogenes: I’ll agree to a truce if you will.
Some time ago, a good friend (who had kids) and I used to have conversations like this all the time. Well, minus the sarcasm etc. He asked me what I’d do because he was fresh out of ideas. The consensus between us was that it’s all very nice to look at textbook theories of how to handle kids, think about what worked when you were a kid, etc. and sometimes those approaches actually work. However…
-
Every kid is different; what works on one may mean nothing to another.
-
Unless you’re independently wealthy, you come home from work dog tired and can’t spend the time you’d like on every problem behavior.
-
Even if you did a perfect job, the kid makes one “bad” friend and that can undo a lot of good work.
-
It’s even worse if there’s stress in the marriage (or shared custody etc.)
I could think of more and I know you could. Honestly, I have a lot of respect for a lot of parents. It’s the toughest job in the world and many enter it with zero training. I think a lot of the ills we’re seeing today may not come from “bad parenting,” but rather, “no parenting.” If single moms aren’t even home, then what?
I would only suggest to you that telling me (or any other childless person) that I know “nothing” can be taken as offensive. I willingly grant you, “knowing” something and executing it or having a plan B or whatever can be miles and miles apart.
Look, the standard rule for Internet dating - or anytime you’re going to meet up in person with someone you’ve met over the Internet - is that the first meeting happens on neutral ground in a public space. That means the food court at a mall, not someone’s home.
I don’t see why that wouldn’t be a good rule to follow here, too.
How many stories are there actually? I was under the assumption the number was extremely low and that few, if any, were over the age of 14 (and under 18 so as still to qualify as a “child”).
It has also been my experience that whenever I hear about a kid being abducted or killed by an Internet predator, they had run away from home and no one knew where they were until someone found the body. That doesn’t apply in this case.
I’m sorry if I was harsh, but when you are a parent, you start to tune out the advice from those who haven’t done it. I will listen to anybody who IS a parent, though.
It’s certainly true that every kid is different, and that no matter how hard you try, they are going to do really stupid thiings and make poor decisions.
In addition to your list a couple of things that should be noted are that, you’re inevitibly going to make huge, stupid mistakes with kids. You’re going to lose your patience. You’re going to yell at them or say or do things you wish you hadn’t said or done. You’re not always going to be fair. You’re going to make realizations about yourself. That’s one of the unexpcted things, is that they make you keenly aware of every flaw in yourself. They can make you feel inadequate like nothing else ever does.
You also feel more strongly bonded to them and invested in them than any other human relationship. It’s a fundamentally different, more intense emotional attachment than any other realtiosnhip. It’s not the same as loving your parents or your siblings or your SO. It’s a whole different thing. Your brain chemistry literally changes. That overwhelming sense of love and responsibility – that prime directive to protect them at all costs – is what I was referring to when I said I suspected those who’d let their kids go were not parents. I actually wasn’t insinuating ignorance so much as just recognizing (I think) that those people were unaware of difficult that kind of thing becomes when it’s really your own kid, and not just a hypothetical. Every psychological instinct is screaming “protect protect protect.” Uncertainty is not a place that parents intuitiively want to put their kids. I would want to KNOW, not just be pretty sure, exactly who this other person was. Chances are, he’s probably who he says he is, but “probably” isn’t good enough for me. I’d want certainty.
Great, we’re cool, Diogenes. I like the little speech Jason Robards gives in “Parenthood,” about how you never cross the finish line etc. Better you than me and hey—good luck! 
OK, [/feuding hijack]
This is a good point. It sounds like the kind of situation where it would be very easily for her to be pressured into doing something that she would not ordinarily do, especially since she sounds like she doesn’t have the best judgement skills yet.
I’ve dated guys online enough to know that not everyone online is a predator. However, I never took it for granted that I could be certain that a guy I had only talked online with had completely good intentions. I always met with guys in public at first and would never go to a private home with them on a first meeting.
Murder and kidnapping are pretty rare events, but date rape is a relatively common occurrence and this kind of situation would make it easier for it to happen.
All good points!
She is up here now and we’ve had a couple of talks. She is determined to go, in spite of this:
a thing I have mentioned repeatedly.
The boy is either 17 or 18, in any case he says he graduated HS this year. The girl’s mother is grumbling, saying “it’s your decision” and then being bitchy and in general contributing nothing positive. Her father (the parents are not together) shrugs, says he doesn’t like it but will drive her 110 miles to the airport.
I, who she’s accustomed to looking to for me to handle everything for her, has refused to offer one dime and she now knows no money is forthcoming. I suspect she’ll leave broke. All the support I’m willing to give is that I’ve told her if she gets in a mess to call me and I’ll come get her.
But nobody needs to worry, because she has talked to his younger sister, and everybody knows that can’t be faked, right? Also, they met on Facebook, an application there called “Are you interested.” I guess if I were trolling the 'net with mischief in mind that would be a good place to start.
Thanks to the many dopers that have put time and effort into this, I have read every comment. Keep 'em coming!
I think this is an important fact to keep in mind. You’re obviously not a stranger, but you’re not the one who gets to make the ultimate decision on what’s best for this girl.
If I were this girl’s father, I would not let her go. If I were you, I would try to discourage her from going, and I would probably refuse to help her go (financially or otherwise). But you also need to recognize that if she insists on going, and she has the resources to go, and her parents’ permission, it’s out of your hands.
In all sincerity, I hope everything works out fine for her, and she has a safe and enjoyable time; that said, I applaud you for refusing to subsidize her vacation, and to stick to your guns about not throwing a pile of $$$ her way!!!
(and I would be sure that she knows that you will fly out there on a moments notice if she needs you, as opposed to offering to Western Union her cash if she claims to be in a bad spot)
This is awesome on your part. Not enabling her, and at the same time supporting her if she gets into something she can’t handle. She is lucky to have a grandfather like you who will stick up for her (and yes, I think refusing her money in this case IS sticking up for her, in the long run).
Does anybody (besides your granddaughter) at least have the name of the boy, phone number, address, parents’ names? Has anyone talked to him or to his parents besides your GD? This is something parents do even for non-internet friendships. If one of my kids wanted to spend time in another city with someone I didn’t know, I’d be on the phone with them, getting details. And if someone was visiting my kid, I’d expect to hear from their parents. If I didn’t, I’d figure they just didn’t care.
I would hope that by the time my daughter is 17 she could handle such a trip by herself. I know that for myself I was living in a new city at 16 by myself.
I would absolutely make sure she has mad money if the situation is not good.
There must also be some way that you can get independent verification of the address, the boy’s name or some such? Just to 100% confirm things.
Personally I would not be enthusiastic about this, but if I was satisfied that the boy was who he said he was, and my daughter had the (what I thought) the self possession and awareness to make the trip then I would let her go.
So, no one in the family thinks this is a good idea and yet no one has the cajones to say “No”? This young lady has done little or nothing to show that she can be a responsible adult. Taking on this kind of venture at her maturity level irregardless of her chronological age is absurd. There are 20-somethings that shouldn’t attempt something like this. The difference is that the 20-somethings can either support themselves if they make a bad decision or they have a family full of enablers allowing them to continue to fail.
If she is in that teenage OH MY GOD I’LL DIE IF I DON’T SEE THIS BOY FOR ANOTHER TWO WEEKS stage, then again, she is not adult enough to even consider this.
I don’t buy the “she’ll be 18 in a couple of weeks so it doesn’t matter” line either. Fact is, she’s not 18. Where in the sam hell are her parents? You say they’re “going all bonkers”.
Perhaps if she would have made responsible choices like (1) keeping her good paying job instead of laying at the pool all summer, (2) saved her own money to travel to see him, and/or (3) asked for counsel instead of allowing her emotions to rule her world then maybe she would have shown that she was “adult” enough to venture out on her own.
Yes, there is risk sending your 17 year old off to points unknown. If forbidding her until she’s 18 is enough to send the girl off the deep end and ruin a “perfectly good relationship” with her parents, then again, I have to ask is she really mature in the first place?
I’m afraid that If she were mine, I would be more pissed at how I could have raised a girl to be OH MY GOD I’LL DIE IF I DON’T SEE THIS BOY FOR ANOTHER TWO WEEKS. :rolleyes:
I found the thread: Fathers of daughters: Do you think all men are scum till proven otherwise?
This seems like a chance to build some of that maturity that she is lacking now. Life is full of risks, and the only way you learn how to manage those risks is to take one now and then.
Really, it is highly unlikely the guy is anything but a teenage boy. The most trouble she is likely to get into is that they won’t get along and she’ll want to go back home early- in which case it’s as good a time as any for her to learn how to travel on her own.
Yeah, on the other hand she might end up in a pickle bucket.
One more time – the issue is not about letting her travel alone, it’s about letting her go off into a situation where she has no knowledge or control of who she’s meeting or what they’re going to do to her. You think the odds are low that something bad can happen? The odds were just as low for every other person who’s been raped/murdered/eaten by internet predators.