My point was not at all civil war revisionism. I’m not really sure where you got that from. My point was only to state that simply because secessions haven’t worked in the past, doesn’t mean that they’re inherently wrong. Slavery was only mentioned after 2ply, not so cleverly, implied that I was for it.
As someone who’s lived her entire life in Texas (Wichita Falls, College Station, and Houston to be specific), I agree with this. There’s people who joke about stuff like how Texas should be it’s own country again, but would be horrified if there was a serious movement for seccession. I’ve never met anyone who seriously thought that Texas should be “liberated” from America; I’m not too surprised that there are a few people who think that, but it’s nowhere near close to 15%.
Many Texans are unusually proud of being Texan, but not to the extent of being anti-American.
I’ve lived in Texas for about 20 years. I’ve heard the “Texas can secede” bit from my brother (who has also lived here about 20 years). He wasn’t advocating it but that he said it was technically true and he’d run into a few of its proponents. I’ve known a few people who probably secretly felt that way but didn’t say so.
First I lived in El Paso, which other Texans have said “isn’t really part of Texas.” It’s so far west, in the desert, overwhelmingly Hispanic, and its heart belongs to Mexico City, not D.C. Historically it was a convenient place to cross the Rio Grande, hence El Paso del Norte; today it seems like bump in the road without much to recommend it in the way of natural resources or anything else.
I dated a Hispanic woman over there who said she was a Texan, not a “wetback.” Some make the distinction of having family ties that go way back; they’re not Johnny-Come-Latelys, which they feel gives them more status. I thought it was ironic because she said when she lived in East Texas (Tyler area) they thought she was a Johnny-Come-Lately and wouldn’t give her the time of day, and it really hurt her.
I haven’t toured them extensively, but a lot of Texas towns seem bland. I’ve been to Midland-Odessa, which seemed dirty. I saw Lubbock, which rolls up its sidewalks at 9:00 PM. I also visited San Antonio…I did visit the Alamo once and left feeling that the Mexicans had some legitimate complaints. I didn’t mention these to anyone, however. Some say the rodeo there is big time. I dinno: none of which were exciting. I’ve heard that Amarillo is pretty blah and I haven’t heard anybody gush about Wichita Falls or Corpus Christi. I would guess the people in the OP hailed from one of those places and felt the need to be proud of something.
I’ve also been to Houston and Austin. Houston is big and there’s stuff to do there but dayum the traffic…and it smelled bad when I was there. Austin is the place all Texans seem to want to live because UT/A makes it happenin’, Bohemian, all that. I live in DFW, and if you’re willing to crawl through the traffic, there’s plenty going on. Supposedly a really low figure (10%?) of the people living in Dallas were born in Dallas—the rest are from somewhere else. So you won’t get much of the secession attitude around here.
Among Texans it’s probably about which city is the best.
Found this:
http://www.countrystyletx.com/articles/062/062_01.aspx
*Supporting this view is language in the original Texas Constitution of 1836, which was repeated in the post-Reconstruction Texas Constutiton of 1876, declaring that, “(The people) have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper.” *
*A U.S. Supreme Court decision rendered in 1869 seems to obviate these persistent claims to sovereignty. Commenting on its 5-3 decision on Texas v. White, Chief Justice Salmon Chase stated that the Union is “composed of indestructable states,” and established on behalf of the high court of the land that secession is illegal. *
I think this Toutube link is appropiate: (Warning be prepared to piss your pants)
Real Men of Genius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4PHV6NdCWE
As a Texan; I can say this commercial is pretty much spot on.
All I can do is speak from experience.
I have lived in San Antonio all my life - 55 years now. I have know plenty of people who are proud of Texas and being Texans, but no more so that I see other people from other states and countries show pride in their homeland. I have never run across the rabid Texans that I occasionally see mentioned here in the Dope.
I think a lot of people in other states expect Texans to act or be different. I remember meeting some people from the New England area sometime in the 1970s who asked me if we really had to shake the rattlesnakes out of our boots in the morning.
When I traveled to Atlanta for the Olympics several years ago, I had quite a few people ask me if I felt out of place there. I told them, no, I didn’t think it much different at all. The way the people talked, how friendly they were, the heat and humidity - all made me feel right at home.
Just like other states, we have our share of fanatics that think Texas, or some aspect of it, is the best their is. Ever try to compare colleges with an Aggie?
I tend to think that a lot of these more radical Texans tend to escape the state now and then, and go about preaching the Texas gospel to others who are unfortunate to cross their path. Just ignore them. They always come back home again. We ignore them too.
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But you’re obviously not a Texan, so your opinion on this thread doesn’t count!
Re the OP: I’ve lived here most of my life & have noticed quite a bit of Lone Star Chauvinism. However, the people QtheM met were expressing a minority opinion.
That one has always cracked me up because it is perfect!
I moved to the Houston burbs when I was nine from Kentucky. (I’ve said it before–my family runs the gamut from hillbilly ALL the way to redneck.)
I’ve basically lived in that area of Texas since. I really enjoy Texas. There are some aspects of it I don’t like, but no other place feels like home.
That said, when I got to go Australia a few years ago, Aussies would ask “where are you from?” I knew it was obvious we were Americans, so my family and I would say “Texas.”
And it was fun…they all knew some mate that had been in Texas.
I have also in chatting, apologized for being from Texas “Btw, sorry, I never voted for him.”
Tejanos are Native Texans. Their own culture and music separate from Johnny-Come-Latelys. At one time, most of Anglo Texas wouldn’t have given her the time of day. Texas was an extremely bigoted place where Texas Rangers even participated in an ethnic cleansing of sorts against non-immigrant, US Citizen, Texas Hispanics in the Rio Grande Valley at the turn of the century. Official and unofficial discrimination against the group was extremely prevalent until the1960s and 1970s.
There is a pledge of allegiance to Texas, which is recited sometimes. I’m not sure where though. I never heard it when I was in El Paso, but EP isn’t a very Texasey place. Anyone know how common it is to recite the TX PoA? Compared to other states, assuming they even have one? I found it odd that it even existed, but maybe they’re common.
The Texas Capitol bldg is 14 feet taller than the US Capitol:
The San Jacinto Monument is also about 14 feet taller than the Washington Monument:
Prolly not a co inky dink.
Paging LouisB.
I was aware that there was a Texas PoA, but never learned it nor was required to recite it.
We were taught the Texas state song, “Texas, Our Texas”* in third grade music class. Also spent a year in eighth grade on Texas history, but I understand kids in other states have similar classes as well.
*Of course, the real state song is “The Eyes of Texas”, but some folks tend to disagree for some reason.
As a native Texan I’ve heard people joke about our “right to secede” etc., but I’ve never heard anybody discuss it seriously.
The thing about Texans is that if they travel out of the country and they are asked where they are from, they will say Texas. Not America. Even the tourism board’s slogan is “Texas: It’s Like a Whole Other Country.” We are taught Texas history in school; you find the state flag everywhere. (IIRC Texas is the only state that can fly its state flag at the same height as the American flag, and/or fly it by itself, without the American flag.)
I could go on.
The thing is, I can see how this looks to outsiders, but I don’t think most Texans take it seriously. It’s like being loyal to your school; chances are good you’re going to be most fanatical about it to someone from another school. Sure we’re proud of being Texans, but the two people in the OP are just crazy. Everybody has their fair share of crazies; they are far from the norm.
Like the state flower, state bird, etc. they’re probably on the books somewhere. When I was in about 8th grade, our history teacher made us sing the state song.
Funny, I remember the opening being: “1818 saw your founding Illinois, Illinois…”
Anyway, there’s a boatload of them:
It turns out that the Illinois State Capitol is taller than most:
With a total ground height of 361 feet (110 m), the Illinois capitol is the tallest non-skyscraper capitol, even exceeding the height of the United States Capitol in Washington, DC. The only state capitols taller than it are the non-classical designs found in Louisiana and Nebraska, which opted for more modern buildings for their current capitols.
So neener!
Some Newfoundlanders have a similar ‘Newfoundland first, Canada second’ outlook, and argue that the island would have been better off staying a Republic or separate Dominion rather than joining Canada. They often point to Iceland as a model of how they could have gone it alone, and point to dodgy results in the vote to join the Confederation of Canada. If you meet these people, they will also point out how they are Newfoundlanders, not Canadians.
I mention this just to demonstrate that Texas is not the only place with this phenomenon.
What about people from Quebec? Not stirring a hornet’s nest, genuinely curious.
This isn’t really an unknown phenomenon throughout the western U.S. Dreams of secession exist in almost every state west of the Mississippi; when I was younger I spent several creative writing classes sketching out a novel about that very thing (I still have several hundred pages of manuscript). My research led me to believe that a Western secession would splinter because Texas and California had briefly been republics.
Not that all Texans are like this. We have several friends who live or grew up in Texas, and they are all loyal American citizens who think their home state is the finest our nation has to offer. I’d say the couple Qadgop met was posing a little and probably hadn’t traveled outside their native land all that much. All of the Texans I know are much more gracious.
Any state’s flag can fly by itself, but definitely not at the same height.
No, not really. Texas is pretty unique geographically, but people are people just about everywhere you go.
Since most of Texas of it is rural, you’ll meet quiet a few rugged individualists with a self-reliance mindset. I would venture that the same is true in most western states.
Texas also has a fairly unique history and it is taught with enthusiasm (and a little bias) in the school systems. Proabaly moreso than in most states.
I would suspect that most people who become obnoxious about their Texasness are feeling a bit ‘unsophisticated’ in their surroundings and are over-compensating.
A few years ago, I was in the Newark airport walking toward one of the restrooms when a couple of guys came walking out. One was angrily declaiming to the other, “Man, everything’s bigger in Texas! Even the bathrooms are bigger in Texas!”
Those Texans take their state pride seriously…