You punished Reeder for doing things other people do all the time. Could you explain the difference?
Not that I’m calling for Liberal’s banning, I just don’t find him less troublesome than Reeder.
Well, I very much appreciate that, and likewise express to you my feeling that, although I really dislike the posting style you sometimes show here (more frequently than others, including recently, in my opinion), I otherwise enjoy your presence here. Yes, we frequently disagree, and I have no problem with that. In fact, I think it’s great.
I make no claims to being devoid of any pettiness, but I’m proud that my pettiness does not include extra-anonymous bitching. I’m often a son of a bitch, but I feel strongly about being a straightforward son of a bitch.
At long last! I’ve found the brother I’ve always suspected I had.
That bitch!
tomndebb, I thank you for your reply. I do agree that Liberal has been most careful about not overtly violating rules, though do still find him to be a jerk (which supposedly we are discouraged from doing).
I guess that my take here is that the consensus seems to be that Liberal is a smart poster. Let us accept that as a fact. If we look at threads where he posts, it is also an observable fact that they get derailed has hell and that he pisses a lot of people off.
Now, we can either assume that this is just some strange inexplicable phenomenon that just happens out of the blue over and over again to fresh crop of posters one after another or we can start to wonder what roll Liberals supposed intelligence plays in how his posts are perceived and how he comes off.
What is clear is that you guys, for whatever reason, don’t really seem to care. It would seem that Liberal can derail thread after thread for years on end, and that gum can basically load a shotgun with shit and spray what seems to be random posters with false accusations and that we are supposed to just ignore it. Nice.
But Binary, I think you’re a jerk too. Ought that to carry weight with Tom? I think you derail threads. You derailed my thread about Bush’s vacation. Have you been given a special set of rules? Maybe you have an over-bloated sense of how much I am hated that comes from your own bias and prejudice. Someone said something a page or two back about a unanimous consent about me, and I thought damn. Unanimous? The same old cadre — 0.00025% of the membership — who seem to have made it their life’s mission to make their hatred of me known is unanimity? It is to laugh. Ha. I don’t care that you hate me. There are lots of people who don’t hate me. There are even people who love me to death. Why don’t you just find some other cause?
No, we did not.
Reeder was guilty of repeatedly posting one-line, content-free, Bush-bashing threads, then failing to even develop a serious argument for a topic of debate. His “final straw” thread being a clear case, in which, following the OP, his only responses to other posters were undeveloped, one-line insults.
No other poster did that with Reeder’s overwhelming frequency. Few other posters do it even rarely. (There are a few who post one-line drive-by OPs on innocuous topics, sometimes even a couple of times a month. There is no poster whose behavior resembles that of the constant Reeder Bush bashing.)
Liberal, It’s like this: I don’t hate you, I simply find that you substantially detract from the pleasure that I get from the board. I also notice that I am far from alone in this, and I am pretty damn sure that you post the way that you do deliberately. I am also sure that a bunch of people didn’t wake up one day and decide randomly that you annoy them. I am pretty sure that we all arrived at that conclusion honestly, and by reading your posts and watching you go through your endless cycles.
But it is also clear that nothing is going to be done about it by the Administration and that in spite of the numerous times that people have tried to have sincere conversations with you about the way that you present yourself until they finally get fed up and give up that you don’t have an introspective bon in your body when it comes to your posting style and so are never going to change.
So fine, you win. Go forth, and continue to be a douchebag. Hijack to your hearts content and continue to spread dissent.
You detract from my pleasure too, Binary. What you don’t seem to get is that, between you and me — nevermind others — there are two points of view. Lots of shit around here irks me, and I’ve enumerated them before. But all in all, I think it’s a fine place. At one time, opinions like yours got to me, but they don’t anymore. Do yourself a favor and don’t take this all so seriously. Believe it or not, you and I could get along fine if we just dropped our baggage and let it go. When and if you’re ever ready to do that, just let me know. I have nothing against you personally. I don’t even know you. You perceive constant crap from me, but I perceive the same from you. In all likelihood, neither of our perceptions is deadon balls accurate.
Now see, I’m going to speak up here because in the past, when I’ve expressed displeasure with your antics, Lib, you made it a point to include me in the people who “were out to get you,” and purposely seek to bash you. Quite frankly, I think this is part of the problem-instead of addressing arguments, you blame a bunch of people as having an agenda or a vendetta against you. I understand that Demos DID act that way towards you, but it doesn’t mean that anyone else does, or that they don’t have a legit beef.
The truth? I don’t hate you. I don’t even really dislike you. There are times when you can be pretty interesting and humorous. However, you also have a really fucking annoying habit of derailing threads with some of your pet issues, and when called upon it, you cry persecution.
THAT I have a problem with. It’s simply a way of dodging the issue and trying to avoid answering the arguments people are making.
I honestly wasn’t including you in that tiny percentage, Guin. You and I have made our peace. I have no problem with you. And you’ll notice that this time, I didn’t cry persecution. I acknowledged that plenty of people like me. Some even love me. I don’t feel persecuted. Just mildly annoyed. But not at you.
Regarding arguments made, I’ve already said they’re lies. I have no special privileges. I do not control the administration. I do not have compromising photos of any of them. And I have not sponsored hoards of members. I mean, if you call those arguments…
They were hyperbolic hypotheses. From where I sit, you seem to get away with a lot more than others do and so I was hypothesizing as to why that might be. But then I assume that you are smart enough to know that and are just calling them lies because it has more dramatic flair.
FIne by me, then. I’m willing to meet you there. They were hyperbolic hypotheses.
Well, I disagree–but as I recall, we went over that one pretty thoroughly, and I doubt anyone will change anyone’s mind on that. I think he’s very eloquent in his dishonesty sometimes, to the point that he comes across as believing the lies he’s telling; but sincerity in insincerity is no virtue.
I’d like to see him banned because of his unique combination of arbitrary venom and dishonesty. It poisons the boards worse than reeder’s predictable nonsense, in my opinion.
Daniel
FIne by me, then. I’m willing to meet you there. They were hyperbolic hypotheses.
Some of us even came to it over many years and with great reluctance. Up until a few months ago, I would have even considered myself a defender, if for no other reason than that he takes unusual, underrepresented positions, and argues them vigorously.
Eventually, however, the echo made it clear that he had disappeared up his own ass. It became undeniable that he was taking these positions dishonestly, arguing simply to argue. And with great disappointment, I found I had no choice but to join the ever-growing number of detractors.
I wish it were not so.
My take exactly, even to having been accused of being one of the vendetta hounds. Lib, you and I hashed that out and resolved it, and I bear no grudge over it, but I told you then that I would speak up when I thought you were in the wrong (but would keep it civil). I believe Guin’s analysis is spot on, and I wish you would take it to heart.
That is rather the point, however. Several people can see actions in Lib’s posts that they cannot describe in ways that make a clear case that he is behaving against the rules–or even differently than other posters. Your report and follow-up discussion was not sufficiently persuasive to bring me OR Gaudere OR MEBuckner to your position, (not even to the point where we might have discussed, but then dismissed, the possibility of your charge being valid).
I am not, in any way, claiming that you or anyone else is simply carrying out an irrational vendetta. I am noting that whether it is nitpicking language to death, injecting bitter comments, defending an opposing view long past the point of relevance, expressing oneself in ways that others misunderstand, or even occasionally presenting a binary world view, Lib has no monopoly on those behaviors.
I accept the sincerity of your opinion. Unfortunately, your sincerity has not provided enough evidence to persuade me.
Acknowledged. I am, honestly, doing the best I can. At some point, it might just be the case that I do not have the social skills to do what you ask of me with perfect consistency. Or even imperfect consistency. I don’t intentionally drop into a thread and think, “Hmmm… Now, what can I say that will derail this?..” I see something about some injustice, and state my opinion that the root cause is an obtrusive government. Or I see something about somebody to blame for something, and state my opinion that the OP should examine himself. (As you’re doing here with me.) People keep talking about a posting style, and other than an admitted literary stilt, born of an affectation with Southern writers, I honestly can discern no particular “style”. What some people call cryptic seems perfectly clear to me. Maybe I’m just the board’s oddball. I mean no harm. I apologize when I see the error of my ways. And yes, I screw up again. It’s just me, out and open.
Now, now. Just a brother from another mother.
Meanwhile, I am wondering how old gum is doing. As far as I am concerned, I stand accused of something that I didn’t do and to be honest am pretty pissed about it.
Anyone want to come tell me that as far as they are concerned my good (ok, bitchy and perhaps mediocre) name has been cleared?