They liked the name. There was a crossover even in the comics a couple of years ago and they kept coming back to it as a name. There’s no similarities between the comic and film though.
First off: Natasha, not Natalia
The romance angle had “already started” in that she had already come to have romantic feelings for him, but that’s it. They hadn’t started a new relationship. In the scene at the bar at Tony’s party, she’s playfully letting him know how she feels. We know it’s the first he’s hearing of it because he didn’t even know she was talking about him at first: He tells her to “run with it” then immediately follows up with “I mean, what did he do? How bad was it?” or something to that effect. Then later at Barton Farms she waits rather than getting into the shower with him like she really wanted to.
Barton’s wife does ask “How long has that been a thing?” but she’s picking up little signs that show how the two of them feel about one another. It’s not like she and Natasha opened up a carton of ice cream and painted each other’s toenails while Natasha told all “OMG, I have to tell you all about me and Bruce!”
In my defence I had just woken up when I typed that.
Anyway, maybe I am misremembering (I saw the film a week ago as it opened here earlier), but wasn’t the first sign of anything how she managed to de-Hulk him (“Lullaby”, wasn’t it?). Clearly something had woken between them and what we were seeing was a result of that, not the genesis of it. Doesn’t Barton’s wife also say that she would “explain it to him”, the point being that to her it was obvious, not just " picking up little signs". The joke was that Barton was blind to what she found obvious.
But anyway, what we saw in the film was very much a “here, this has started”, just maybe they hadn’t realised. We didn’t see how it could have started. This was supposed to be something that had developed over time, probably whilst they were helping Banner to de-Hulk himself, and that was all completely off camera, leaving space for more explosions and jump cut fights.
Anyway, this is immaterial. It was one example. Want another? How is Stark back on the team? Last time we saw him he was retiring, blowing up all his suits. Now it is as if nothing had happened.
One trope I’d seriously lobby for at least a moratorium on (well, if I were one to lobby for things, that is) is ‘guy breaks it up with female love-interest because it’s just so dangerous for her to be around him’. Yes, yes, I get it’s supposed to be some sort of noble sacrifice, some sort of ‘he loves her enough to let her go (or push her away)’-thing, but honestly, besides being way overdone, it’s actually simply patronizing—implying that women can’t make such choices on their own, or that they’ll make the wrong choice because of foolishly following their hearts, and so on. Which it should be clear even to Banner that Romanoff isn’t quite the type for.
I was seriously hoping that the film was trying to subvert that trope, with Banner in that scene with Black Widow just stepping out from behind her and some throwaway lampshading line (that’s after all what Whedon’s usually good at), but they chose to go full troubled-hero-leaves-out-of-troubled-heroism.
Also, not only was all that stuff with Scarlett Witch’s visions terribly hammy, most of it also seemed to have no other purpose beyond showing how oh-so-troubled our heroes are—Iron Man got spurred into action creating Vision, and Thor, with the help of the water-ghosts somewhere (which seemed itself just to exist to shoehorn Stellan Skarsgard into some marginal plot-relevance), to assist. What was the purpose of Captain America’s flashback, for instance?
Other than that, I suppose it was OK. A bit thin, perhaps, and I thought not quite as witty as the first one (but I’ll have to rewatch in English, lots of stuff gets lost in translation), but I really liked the villain (less so his cannon fodder drones)—somehow, his utter unhingedness made him seem unsettlingly human; usually, AI evil is portrayed as being of the emotionlessly calculating sort, but Ultron just didn’t quite seem to have all his diodes together in a way that gave him a lot more character than your average murderbot. This was also reflected really well in his first barely-functional cobbled-together body.
I also liked the Hawkeye reveal, steering him away from the lone-wolf cliché, even though it did feel a little tacked-on to achieve just that effect.
IMHO it was better.
It hadn’t really started though…it never happened. You saw their first kiss. What would you want to see? More scenes of them looking longingly into each others’ eyes?
I rather enjoyed the movie, and I liked it much more than I thought I would given the reviews I’ve heard and the fact that I thought the first movie was a masterpiece.
Although I do have to agree that the CGI in the opening scene looked super fake, but that was the only scene were it really took me out of the action.
I actually didn’t think the fighting was too much/ridiculous. They are an elite forces group in and around a war. They’ll do a skirmish, then rest, then do a skirmish etc.
I could easily tell when watching the movie that there must have been A LOT of scenes that were cut. How did Ultron get his shiny new body? How did Thor know about the water hole? What “legends” were behind it? I think the DVD will be pretty cool.
I knew it from the trailers and it was confirmed when I watched the movie: Every word that James Spader speaks just melts from his…um…mouth. It was like audio porn.
This movie really makes me excited for Cap 3. Chris Evans does a GREAT job as Captain America and I love the rapport between him and RDJ. Can’t wait for this one.
Them training, whatever they did to help calm the Hulk down.
But as I said, this is just one example. There are others, and judging by the reviews I am not alone in thinking this (I also didn’t read a single review before I saw it last Sunday and discussed with my friends at the pub afterwards).
Banner remarked that with the amount of vibranium that Ultron took he was probably using it for multiple purposes.
So, there’s molecularly bonding it with tissue to form what would become Vision.
The drill through the city.
His shiny new body.
He did seem to get a lot done in very little time, I’ll give him that.
I really think there should just have been a very tiny amount of vibranium such that, by necessity, all of it had to go into Vision’s body. Cap’s shield has taught us to revere Vibranium as this miraculous indestructible super metal. Even if Howard Stark was wrong that the shield was all there was of it, Wakanda should have a tighter grip on whatever else there may be. And if they’re going to make Ultron’s shiny new body out of Vibranium then it should be as indestructible as Cap’s shield.
This movie kinda cheapened Vibranium in the MCU.
It got a mention, described as something that Banner and Romanov came up with together. I’m sure during those intimate close work conditions is when she started to develop feelings for him. Might have made for some nice scenework between the two of them but I think it’s something that just would have to have been completed before the start of the action of the film. Flashbacks to it would have probably been clunky.
Still, as I understand it, this is just one example.
LANGUAGE!
Yes, major trope fatigue on this.
I’ll give them credit for at least playing it straight in this movie. The trope is more often used as an excuse for the protagonist to dump the romantic interest so he can start out single in the next movie in the series and pick up a new romantic interest. But in this case, it’s clear Banner was making a legitimate sacrifice and was going off to be alone.
I agree with the generally negative response. I’d give it a C- or so, compared to an A or A- for The Avengers.
Some comments:
-Most of the CGI was fine (I never felt that Ultron looked out of place in a scene, for instance), but the opening battle felt so cartoony that at one point I actually thought there was going to be a pull-back and it would be revealed to be a simulation or something. Definitely started the movie off on the wrong foot
-The entire character of “Vision” was kind of meh. Maybe if I was a comics-reader it would have meant more, but it was like: (1) There’s all this build up with Ultron building himself a new body, (2) Thor for some reason has visions in a nightmare? (3) out pops this awesome new superhero who can fly and is indestructible and has one of the most powerful energy sources in the universe in his forehead, and (4) he then kind of hangs around and is about as helpful as a dude with a bow and arrow
-Agree that Ultron’s motivation was unclear and generic
-If you want Ultron to full-powered point-blank nail Cap with his zappy weapons, and Cap is basically totally unphased, then either you’ve powered Ultron down into non-scariness or you’ve powered Cap up into Hulk territory. Either way, it makes things less interesting.
-Banner and Stark’s initial plan that let to the creation of Ultron was just ridiculous. How about if you’re performing experiments with alien AI of unknown provenance you do it on a computer that is inside a Faraday cage, isolated from the internet. Then it can use its magic infinity-stone power to jump through lightning and escape or something, takes all of 30 extra seconds and it doesn’t make two geniuses look like utter morons
-So what WAS Hydra doing at that base at the beginning? Did we ever find out? (Other than training/experimenting-on the twins?)
-What was it that Hawkeye said about “no one would ever know… last time I saw Ultron he was sitting on (something)?”. It got a huge laugh, but I didn’t get it at all
Yes, fair point. He didn’t have that “floating a millimeter above the ground” look that CGI dudes had until recently.
Yes, absolutely terrible. Looked like the CGI of 10 years ago. Worse.
And he’s all wise and good and preachy and worthy of wielding Thor’s hammer and barf.
Yeah, guys GUYS this is the sceptre wielded by Loki for chrissakes. It’s a known evil artifact. WhyTF would you think that downloading the intelligence in it is a good idea?
Another thing that confused me: I thought the gem in the sceptre was the Tessaract, so where did the Mind Stone come from?!
One of the things in Captain America 2 (The Idiot Soldier) was the whole Hydra runs SHIELD! thing. Ridiculous and ruins SHIELD. Totally. If Hydra could do that and has all these awesome bases and whatnot, they are basically a world power, not some hidden terrorist org.
The joke is that he could have taken out Quicksilver and that he wouldn’t be missed. The joke is not set up very well, and I barely caught it myself.
To be honest, I have no idea what reality is as I haven’t seen many flying robots/powered suits, but it felt like there was something very wrong with the physics. Things would get hit whilst flying and then crash dead on the floor with no sense of momentum. They just hit the floor and stayed there, despite the fact that they had some kind of forward velocity.
Although that did set up one of the better lines when Captain America argued that an elevator could lift Thor’s hammer without presumably being ‘worthy’. (Although that did clash a bit with Thor the movie, where the hammer is basically just stuck in compacted rock; didn’t seem like they could just use a forklift to raise it up. Maybe Thor would have to drive that forklift…?)
Then presumably Ultron himself could have lifted the hammer, since he’s a machine? That doesn’t make sense (not what you said, the logic of the movie).
Thor doesn’t really confirm whether the elevator would work. I don’t think it should, otherwise the hammer could be moved around by machines at will.
Not THAT body, his first body. He hadn’t yet done the raid on Smeagol’s place he just flew off in t shitty Iron Man suit, then next scene the twins come in and he’s all Ram-y and pretty. Where’d THAT suit come from?
It was right after Quicksilver said “Can’t keep up old man?” So Hawkeye put the bow up and said his line about no one knowing meaning he could just nail him and get his revenge. Then he slowly jogged off.
A very funny moment that broke up the high-stress ending.
Strucker’s basement. You could see a bunch of them when Stark was investigating the place.
I loved the movie.
Walking out I thought “well, they tied in Agents of SHIELD pretty well, but I don’t think people who didn’t watch show will be too impacted.”
Reading through this thread, it looks like I may have been wrong.
Just as a few things brought up int his thread that are in the show:
The twins (their origin)
The destruction of Hydra (huge story arc)
Baron Strucker (developed as a villain)
The Sceptre (I think…)
The raid on the base at the beginning of the movie (it was setup in the end of last week’s episode as the agents had finally tracked some of the last bits of Hydra down, then Coulson/Hill call in the Avengers)
Just got back from seeing it, and really, really enjoyed it. Not quite as good as the first Avengers (which I rewatched last night), but a worthy successor IMHO.
Ultron had at least 3 bodies - the crappy Iron Legion body, the body that was in pieces in the Sokovia castle when the Avengers raided it, and the final body that tore apart body number 2 when he threw Natasha into the cell. Body 2 is the one that Cap fought against, while Body 3 is the one that Thor fought against - hence the difference in their ability.
I thought the concept of Veronica being in orbit, ready for a Hulk event at any time, was a neat touch. Even if orbital mechanics make it completely unfeasible.
I thought throwing us right into the first fight scene was a little abrupt, but one thing it did show is how well the Avengers were working together at that point. At least as well as they were during the Chitauri fight, if not better. They really started the movie as an integrated team.
I also liked Thor’s line when Natasha was trying to cheer up Bruce after the first battle, “The gates of hell are filled with the screams of his victims!”