I don’t know if you are doing this but several people seem to insist on assuming that this kid has some sort of autism or developmental issues. He doesn’t. I swear to you, kids can be assholes without having psychological issues.
Yeah because kids can never be assholes. :rolleyes:
You guys are mostly just virtue signalling.
The OP is right - some children are just naturally inconsiderate, malicious or hurtful to others. It doesn’t necessarily imply autism or that sort of disorder.
What are you 12? Of course kids can be assholes. You sound like someone that has little to no interaction with kids. Pretending that an adult is an asshole for calling out a kid for being an asshole is pretty stupid. If you don’t think he is an asshole based on what I have described, then please, go ahead and make your case. But frankly it seems like you are just saying that any adult that would call a kid an asshole must be an asshole themselves, is pretty stupid.
Have the parents of this kid, to your knowledge, ever been confronted about their son’s behavior? If so, how did they take it? That may be the most telling indication of all.
Kids can have bad behavior, poor impulse control, be rude, be unkind or down right mean. I’ve raised kids that have done all that from time to time.
But kids are never assholes, jerks, dipshits etc. It makes you sound ridiculous to insist on calling a little kid names. You can describe their negative behavior without calling the kid a name. Keep your kid away from him, think he’s a bad influence, I don’t care. But it’s rude and petty to calling a little kid a name like that.
The thing is, even if a kid that little is capable of consciously behaving in a way that would make him an asshole (which I don’t personally believe), nothing about his behaviour that you have described falls into that category, even a little bit.
Every one of your examples – from a pre-schooler getting physical to a 7 year old who cries when he doesn’t get his way – are indicative of a kid who has impulse control issues and is overly sensitive and emotional. Those things come from either a lack of teaching or a lack of developmental ability, not a malicious lack of caring, and the fact that you can’t see the difference is what has me thinking you have a real empathy problem.
Nothing you have described sounds like this is a kid who delights in the suffering of others, or who treats people badly because he doesn’t give a shit, or who goes out of his way to manipulate situations to his own benefit at the detriment of others. Those are the kinds of things that most people generally think of when they think of someone who is an asshole. You have described a kid who is highly emotional, and highly reactive when he’s upset, and whether he has a diagnosable problem, lazy parents, or simply needs some time to catch up to his peers, it’s gotta be hard as fuck for that kid. He does not want to be this way. By your own account, he demonstrably wants to make friends and be accepted, and it’s pretty heartbreaking that the parent of the one kid he thinks of as a friend is so utterly disdainful.
Nobody is saying that his behaviour is good, or that you should make your kid be friends with him. But what people are saying is that maybe you could just give the poor little guy’s cerebral cortex a little maturation time before you write him off as essentially a bad human being.
And whether you use the word asshole about him to your kid or not, I have a hunch your kid has picked up on how you feel and probably doesn’t show him much empathy either. That’s why I think you’re kind of the jerk in this whole scenario. You have the opportunity to show a little kindness to someone who is less fortunate than you are, and to teach your kid to do the same. Your choice to instead curl your lip in disgust at a little boy who is still learning how to human doesn’t make you seem like a very nice person.
From what you posted, the child may well have a developmental issue going on.
What were you hoping to get out of this post? You don’t seem to be looking for advice…
The dad recently had a wake up call when his kid joined the cub scouts. His daughter thrived in the brownies/girl scouts and he thought it would be equally great for his son. But it only highlighted to him what an asshole his son was and now he is taking a more interventionist approach to parenting. Hopefully, it won’t take too long to correct his kid’s behavior. At this point the dirty looks and expressions of shock are getting hard to ignore.
Well, you haven’t met THIS kid.
He’s an asshole. its not an incurable disease and he may grow up to be a fine young man. But I have known him for most of his life and he has been an asshole the entire time I have known him. I blame the parents but the product is an asshole kid.
But I thought the dad was “cool”.
So the kid is an asshole and we’re all 12 year olds for thinking that calling a little kid names is wrong, but the one person who actually has any responsibility here (the dad) is “cool”. Ok.
You are still completely missing the point. No one doubts the kid has problems and is not a good playmate for your son. You don’t have to like that or the child and feel free to keep your kid away.
But you’re defending calling a little kid, who deserves empathy and patience, nasty names. What a hill to die on. Definitely says more about you than anyone else.
Plus, you have no idea what kids I’ve met. I’ve been a scout leader, volunteered doing science enrichment in early elementary school classrooms for years, ran kindergarten playgroups. I generally don’t care for a lot of ill behaved kids and I’ve had to deal with them. It would never dawned on me to call them names like you bandy about with such glee.
You’re the edgy guy speaking truth by calling a little an asshole.
So you are saying that being an asshole requires an act of conscious malice? I disagree.
So you are saying that being an asshole requires an act of conscious malice? I disagree.
I had plenty of empathy the first year or two. As I said in my OP, I blame the parents but the result of their failure is an asshole kid.
You sound like someone who doesn’t have a lot of interaction with children.
I’m sure all assholes want to make friends. But their assholery gets in the way. Its not like I’m making a snap judgment, I’ve observed this kid in various environments over most of his life. He’s an asshole and I would not be doing my kid any favors by encouraging him to interact with him.
I’m not writing him off. I am criticizing his parents for doing such a shitty job with their hands off approach towards raising their son. He may well grow up to be a fine young man.
He’s only less fortunate in the sense that he has parents that won’t discipline him. he doesn’t have any emotional problems or psychological problems, his parents are both reasonably well paid professionals, by all accounts he lives in a happy nurturing home environment. Why is he less fortunate?
My son has seen him almost every day since he was three. He doesn’t need me to form an impression of this kid. He was there when he shoved another kid to the ground and kicked her until she gave him what he wanted. He is there when he is disruptive in class and decides he is going to create his own curriculum for the day. He is there when he whines and cries when he doesn’t get something he wants (and seriously, first grade is more than a little old for that sort of behavior. Its barely acceptable in kindergarten). But sure, I suppose I haven’ done anything that would make my son think that anything about this kid is acceptable, why the fuck would I, I don’t find anything about this kid acceptable at all.
Why do you keep insisting that this kid is having trouble adjusting and not just the product of shitty parenting? I’m sorry that he has parents that subscribe to some bullshit philosophy on parenting but the end result of their parenting efforts is an asshole.
This is the pit. I’m not looking for advice. I’m pitting the hands off parenting philosophy that had produced this asshole.
This kid does not have developmental issues in sense I think you mean. The school has a school psychologist (I guess a lot of them do these days), and he is not getting the special treatment that they give to kids with real issues. He has behavioral and discipline issues and when you see how the parents deal with the kid it is abundantly clear how those discipline issues developed.
Yeah, he’s “relatively cool” in the sense that he isn’t some weird hippy dippy shithead that is raising free range patchouli kids. He is a normal guy that has a shitty philosophy of parenting.
No, you’re missing the point. Kids can be assholes. Parenting can turn an otherwise normal kid into an asshole.
There’s no glee. He’s not just ill-behaved, I’ve been a scout leader and little league coach and the whole 9 yards, I have never run into a kid like this.
So have these ill-behaved kids you don’t care for thrown little girls to the ground and kicked them until the girl gave up what they wanted?
Yes. Finally you get it. I’m trying to be edgy by asserting that little kids can be assholes and you are trying to virtue signal by saying that they can’t.
I’m not sure who you’re trying to convince. I certainly am not claiming this kid isn’t as problematic as you describe.
The issue is you insisting on calling a 7 year old names. Kind of makes you the asshole in this situation.
So wait. You’re not saying that kids can’t be assholes, you’re just saying that anyone tat calls them an asshole for being an asshole is actually an asshole themselves?
That is a form virtue signaling. Holier than thou posturing.
I’ve come to hate the term “virtue signalling” :rolleyes: as much as I’ve come to hate the word “snowflake,” but I do agree that some kids are assholes.
My own nephew was an asshole until around 8. My brother wanted to be the “fun dad” that ours was not (he wasn’t cruel or anything, but he was unemotional and a strict disciplinarian) and my sister-in-law didn’t have much interest in the difficult aspects of parenting. As a result he got whatever he wanted when he wanted it, did and ate what he wanted to when he felt like it, etc. Hell, they wiped his ass for him until around age 6 and were still cuddling him to sleep every night, which he soon figured could push bedtime back past midnight if he wanted. No developmental or emotional issues, just spoiled rottener than a dead skunk in August. He was a poor student who gave his teachers hell, and was definitely “that kid” that his classmates avoided.
One day SIL and I were in a shoe store that had a kiddy area with toys and stuff to keep kids busy while their mothers tried on shoes. Another boy, age 3-4 was playing with a truck, which Nephew decided he wanted. So he stomped over and yelled at the kid to give him the truck. Kid yelled back that he wasn’t done playing yet. Nephew flat out bitchslapped the poor kid, yanked the truck out of his hands, shoved him aside, and started playing with the truck like decking a kid half his size and stealing his toy was nothing at all.
The younger kid started wailing. His mother ran right over and asked what happened, and got scary mad. She was screaming at Nephew, and when SIL tried to drag him out she tore a strip off SIL’s hide and was threatening to get the manager, to get mall security and have them thrown out, she was gonna call the police, etc. etc.
SIL finally got him out of there and scolded him for the first time in like ever… and he threw a Fukashima meltdown because he couldn’t take “his” new truck home. The ride home was spent pissing and moaning about the truck and the other mother for being so mean, because it was the other kid’s fault for not giving him the truck in the first place.
After that, they decided that discipline just might possibly be a good thing. It took a while and Nephew did not like it one tiny bit at first, but he grew some manners, settled down at school, and eventually turned into a normal human being.
I get the impression that Asshole Kid’s parents used a more hands-off approach when raising the older sister, which worked, so they just kept on doing the same for AK without realizing that what suits one kids temperment and personality might not work for another. Hopefully the parents are starting to realize this, based on the experiences at Boy Scouts and whatnot, and will adjust their parenting to something that works out better for this kid. I hope so.
Please note: I am not condoning how the other mother at she shoe store acted. I was scared shitless, and my SIL is still convinced that the woman was going to sock her in the chops if she hadn’t gotten out when she did. My point is that the mountain won’t go to Mohammed, so if Mohammed won’t go to the mountain, someone is liable to pick it up and drop it on him.
I Am Not A Parent, but one thing I’ve observed is that you don’t know what will work with any individual.
I was cashiering a mother with three daughters. The two older ones were standing to the side and behaving like angels, while the younger one was being a total loud, screaming acting up brat. After my usual idea of “you don’t allow behavior like that in this store” didn’t work, I thanked the mother and then looked at the two older girls and said “Thank you for behaving so nice.”
The Brat stopped dead, looking amazed. Her mother picked up on it and said “I told you people notice how you’re behaving in public.” I responded “Yes, and those two girls are behaving properly.”
The Brat became The Angel, behaving right and telling me “Thank you.”
I hope she learned her lesson.
Yes, because adults and children are different. I also believe that kids (especially young kids) deserve different consequences for their actions than adults and their actions should be viewed differently. Call me crazy, but there you go.
I’m not sure about this “virtue signaling” stuff, but I simply believe that calling kids rude names is a lousy thing to do. By your definition any criticism of another person is holier than thou posturing, and that’s just ridiculous. I never said you can’t criticize the child’s actions, keep your kid away from him, be annoyed at the parents. Just don’t look like a schmuck calling a 7 year old an asshole. You can do whatever you want, but why you’d want to that is beyond me.
Anyway, I’ve said my peace, and I’m done here. Keep on keeping on, big guy.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
So you are saying that being an asshole requires an act of conscious malice? I disagree.
[/quote]
Yes, I absolutely believe that. There is a world of difference between reacting poorly to a situation in the heat of the moment and making a choice to be an unkind person.
One of these things is not like the other… It’s a funny flavour of empathy that can be retroactively rescinded.
You keep saying this to anyone who disagrees with your assertion, and it’s baffling. I taught in an elementary school for 10 years, have two kids of my own, and coach and volunteer plenty. I’ve seen a kid or two, thanks, and not once have I ever seen one I would consider an asshole. Honestly, if anyone sounds like they don’t have a clue about children, it’s you. You come across as someone who was lucky enough to have a reasonably easy kid and now sit on a high horse assuming that you and your son are superior to anyone who finds themselves in a different situation.
Because he is 7 years old and doesn’t know how (or isn’t able) to behave in the way people expect a 7 year old to behave, which is resulting in the kind of unhappiness no little kid should have to deal with. Your child does not have that life, so yes, he is more fortunate.
That really says it all. You are apparently the ultimate authority of what is and isn’t age-appropriate development, and it’s that kind of arrogance and intolerance that probably leads to your inability to separate the child from some behavioural problems. Why the fuck would you make your son think that another human being is acceptable? Really? Because he is a human being. That seems obvious to most of us. You keep missing the part where nobody is asking you to find the child’s behaviour acceptable. But yeah, teaching your kid that the kid is worthy of some patience is kind of what people do. This is exactly what makes me think you’re not teaching your kid empathy. Having a conversation with him about Little Bobby and why he might act that way, what good attributes he might have, and what being kind to him might do is a normal thing parents do. It is not the same thing as condoning the behaviour or making your kid be his bestie.
I don’t know what you mean. I’m not insisting that – I am saying that a 7 year old who isn’t regulating at the level of other kids his age more than likely has a reason for that. It may be that he is not as emotionally mature, it may be that he has a developmental issue, it may be that his parents are not doing their job and he would be delightful had he only been raised by someone as clearly skilled at parenting as you are. It could be any of those things. The only thing I am insisting is that it isn’t that he, himself – a little boy - is an asshole.
I guess you really haven’t given us enough information to back your parent-damning. You have given us exactly two examples – one from when he was barely out of toddlerhood with no indication of the circumstances surrounding the event or the parents’ involvement, and another from an in-class situation which should have been handled by the teacher, even if the parent was in fact there. If you want people to stop challenging your premise, you need to support it. I have a hard time believing that you know what involvement the school psychologist does or doesn’t have, though. Either this kid isn’t actually as poorly behaved as you insist, or I assure you there is more going on behind the scenes than you realize.
This kind of flies in the face of your insistence that there’s nothing wrong with him except poor parenting. If he’s “not just ill-behaved”, if you have never seen any other kid like this, then that should be a red flag that something is not right.
Another thing you keep throwing around randomly. Do you even know what it means?