The Boston Marathon Bombing Debate Thread

[Larry_Borgia]

On a slightly more serious note, why not just some random asshole who wanted to kill people and cause mayhem for the hell of it? Motivation the same as the Columbine killers. Seems as plausible as anything else.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Larry_Borgia

On a slightly more serious note, why not just some random asshole who wanted to kill people and cause mayhem for the hell of it? Motivation the same as the Columbine killers. Seems as plausible as anything else.

Or someone doing it because the voices in his head told him to.

[I_Made_French_Toast_For_You]

@Larry_Borgia

On a slightly more serious note, why not just some random asshole who wanted to kill people and cause mayhem for the hell of it? Motivation the same as the Columbine killers. Seems as plausible as anything else.

Which is why we shouldn’t be calling it “terrorism” yet. Yes, it fits the mold really well, but there’s still no motive. I thought it was smart when the president initially avoided the word, but now everyone’s fully aboard the terrorism train, with all the associations that entails.

[XT]

@Larry_Borgia

On a slightly more serious note, why not just some random asshole who wanted to kill people and cause mayhem for the hell of it? Motivation the same as the Columbine killers. Seems as plausible as anything else.

It’s been mentioned several times that it could either be some lone nutter or some kids trying a new tactic instead of the standard gun rampage. Certainly it’s plausible.

[HurricaneDitka]

@Kimmy_Gibbler

Which is why I said “almost universally.”

Let’s compare lists:

AL QAEDA AFFILIATED ATTACKS
1993 WTC Bombing
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing
2000 USS Cole Bombing
2001 9/11
2001 Richard Reid (Shoe Bomber)
2002 Bali Bombing
2004 Madrid Train Bombing
2005 London Tube Bombing
2009 Underwear Bomber
2010 That FedExing Bombs to US Synagogues Thing

RIGHT-WING DOMESTIC TERRORIST
1995 Timothy McVeigh
1996 Atlanta Olympics/Eric Rudoplh
2010 That Guy Who Flew an Airplane into the IRS Building in Texas

Fort Hood?

[XT]

@Euphonious_Polemic

Logic has nothing whatsoever to do with it. As I said, people are stupid, and are easily led.

And yet, there is a certain logic behind some folks thinking that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 back in 2003 (it was wrong, but there is a logic there), while there is zero logic behind going from domestic right wing extremists to Islamic terrorist. But you keep flogging that dead horse if you like.

[BrainGlutton]

@Larry_Borgia

On a slightly more serious note, why not just some random asshole who wanted to kill people and cause mayhem for the hell of it? Motivation the same as the Columbine killers. Seems as plausible as anything else.

@Euphonious_Polemic

Or someone doing it because the voices in his head told him to.

Possibly – but bombing, well, it’s more of a Unabomber/causehead thing, it is not the usual MO for apolitical spree-killers/serial-killers. They prefer to do it up close and personal. (There are some exceptions.)

[Hank_Beecher]

@Diceman

Really. This thread is filled with the sort of comments that say more about the poster than what he’s commenting about. Half this board is deperately hoping this turns out to be right-wing extremists. Maybe it will, but there’s been no evidence of that yet. Just a lot of people who really, really want that to be the case.

The whole reaction to the event has been full of this, from all sorts of people. It is sickening. People are so fucked up and narcissistic that they are more worried about saving the public image of the group that they identify with, or confirming their hatred, than anything else.

[XT]

Some additional (speculative) info about the bombs:

BOSTON—Rep. Stephen Lynch, a Massachusetts Democrat who sits on a national security subcommittee in the house, has told Yahoo News that many of the injured at Monday’s Boston Marathon were hit by ball bearings apparently embedded within the devices.

The Associated Press, citing anonymous law enforcement sources, reported that the bombs were made from pressure cookers stuffed with metal ball bearings. CBS News reported that police have found pieces of an electronic circuit board that they believe could have been used to detonate the pressure cookers. Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said at Tuesday morning’s press conference that law enforcement swept the marathon area for bombs twice before the explosions went off.

For their part, state and federal investigators have declined to say much about the devices that were detonated, sending 176 people to the hospital and killing three, or who they suspect might be behind them.

I have done post-attack analyses on attacks around the world, trying to learn lessons. … The timing here, the devices themselves, the ball bearings used—you know, that’s not some kid in his garage putting something together,” Lynch said.

Though he repeatedly said he didn’t want to get ahead of investigators, Lynch disputed speculation that the devices strongly indicated domestic, rather than international terrorism.

“I don’t think the trappings are … hokey or homegrown,” Lynch said. “Having two explosions, 11 seconds apart, that points to someone who has more competence at this and has training.”

Danny Defenbaugh, the retired special agent who led the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing investigation, told Yahoo News that investigators will try to reconstruct the devices to see if they can identify a “signature” that points to a specific group or individual. Pressure cookers were used in both foreign and domestic terror incidents in the past few years, including the attempted Times Square bombing in 2010.

“It was undoubtedly a terrorist attack, however I’d be very careful in trying to subcategorize it as international or domestic,” Defenbaugh said. “History has proven that’s just not wise.”

[Marley23]

You can see other reports that say bombs of similar design have been used in Afghanistan and Pakistan and other countries.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Marley23

You can see other reports that say bombs of similar design have been used in Afghanistan and Pakistan and other countries.

From 2006:

NEW DELHI: Terrorists in camps purportedly operating along the Baluchistan border between Pakistan and Afghanistan are being trained in making and exploding pressure cooker bombs, which were used in the Delhi blasts last year and at least in two explosions in Varanasi this past Tuesday.

During interrogation, Mohammad Ibrahim, who was arrested for his involvement in the Special Task Force office blast in Hyderabad in October last, allegedly disclosed that he along with several others from Hyderabad and Ahmedabad had been sent to the Baluchistan border camp via Bangladesh to undergo training in the handling of explosives, arms and ammunition.

Apart from the use of assault rifles and small weapons, the militants were imparted training in assembling bombs with timers of different kind and those detonated through remote-control devices.

The “course” also included the manufacturing of pressure cooker bombs fitted with clock-timer, similar to the one used in the improvised explosive device defused at Godolia in Varanasi on Tuesday.

Of course, people with any number motivations could be employing this technique, whether they were trained there or merely copying the method.

[SeldomSeen]

@Diceman

Really. This thread is filled with the sort of comments that say more about the poster than what he’s commenting about. Half this board is deperately hoping this turns out to be right-wing extremists. Maybe it will, but there’s been no evidence of that yet. Just a lot of people who really, really want that to be the case.

In view of the violent history of the American right, the belligerent rhetoric from the Palins, Angles, Limbaughs, Coulters, the NRA, the calls from the right-wing blogosphere for violence & mayhem and Krystallnacht-type activities, misinformation and rabble-rousing from right-wing politicians, the constant apologetics from even more “moderate” right-wing spokesmen it’s hardly surprising that people would naturally suspect this is the work of a home-grown fascist.

Are some of us hoping that will turn out to be the case? Well, in a word, yes. In the aftermath of the Oklahoma city bombing, you may remember, public opinion - even from those who had been marginally sympathetic - turned so firmly against the fringe right-wing groups that they were forced underground for several years. If there could ever be a silver lining behind the horrific events in Boston, this would qualify.
SS

[BigAppleBucky]

There has never been any doubt in my mind that the USA will continue to be hit with terrorist attacks. So far we’ve been either very good or very lucky not to have sustained a worse event. It’s just too damned easy.

Naturally I’m hoping the perp turns out to be a home grown nutjob (whether Islamist, right wing or other) Somehow that seems less ominous than an organized group from outside the country.

The one certain result will be a further ruination of the 4th amendment. It had already been pretty much shot to hell, and will be shredded even more now.

[BrainGlutton]

Comedian Patton Oswalt writes:

Boston. Fucking horrible.

I remember, when 9/11 went down, my reaction was, “Well, I’ve had it with humanity.”

But I was wrong. I don’t know what’s going to be revealed to be behind all of this mayhem. One human insect or a poisonous mass of broken sociopaths.

But here’s what I DO know. If it’s one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. (Thanks FAKE Gallery founder and owner Paul Kozlowski for pointing this out to me). This is a giant planet and we’re lucky to live on it but there are prices and penalties incurred for the daily miracle of existence. One of them is, every once in awhile, the wiring of a tiny sliver of the species gets snarled and they’re pointed towards darkness.

But the vast majority stands against that darkness and, like white blood cells attacking a virus, they dilute and weaken and eventually wash away the evil doers and, more importantly, the damage they wreak. This is beyond religion or creed or nation. We would not be here if humanity were inherently evil. We’d have eaten ourselves alive long ago.

So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, “The good outnumber you, and we always will.”

[dropzone]

NPR is saying that the pressure cookers contained blasting caps, nails, and, instead of ball bearings, BBs. My mom had a pressure cooker but by the time I was eleven she had broken the valve and didn’t use it anymore. I think the evidence pointing to sixth-graders is growing.

I pity the people at Fox who, when jumping to conclusions, ALWAYS point at the Muslims. They lack imagination.

[BrainGlutton]

@dropzone

NPR is saying that the pressure cookers contained blasting caps, nails, and, instead of ball bearings, BBs. My mom had a pressure cooker but by the time I was eleven she had broken the valve and didn’t use it anymore. I think the evidence pointing to sixth-graders is growing.

I knew they should have banned Slingshots, Air Rifles and Cherry Bombs: A Child’s Guide to Low-Intensity Conflict Weapons and Tactics! The School Board wouldn’t even answer my letters! :mad:

[Zakalwe]

@Larry_Borgia

If we’re all going to speculate without evidence, I’d like to blame the Spaniards. We’ve ignored that perfidious race for too long. Remember the Maine!

No no. It’s the damn Albanians! Have you ever eaten at an Albanian restaurant? It must be them.

Al-bane-ee-ahh. Al-bane-ee-ahh. You border on - the - Adri-atic.

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Zakalwe

No no. It’s the damn Albanians! Have you ever eaten at an Albanian restaurant? It must be them.

Al-bane-ee-ahh. Al-bane-ee-ahh. You border on - the - Adri-atic.

Hittites, I tell you, Hittites.
On the down low from 3000 years.

[MEBuckner]

It’s…the hobbits! No, not them. These guys. From their secret lair in Indonesia, they thirst for revenge.

[MEBuckner]

Meanwhile, shades of fucking 2001 with this ricin letter thing. As we all feared with the anthrax letters back then, this could be “the other shoe dropping”, or it could just be a horrible coincidence and two separate people or groups of people (as was ultimately the case with the anthrax letters).

Anyone know anything about Roger Wicker? Is he, I dunno, a leading proponent of unrestricted drone warfare, or keeping Gitmo open, or anything like that? Conversely–he’s a Mississippi Republican, I presume pretty conservative–has he recently announced a willingness to compromise on guns; or taxes; or immigration; or some other hot-button issue? Or alternatively, is there some reason why a left-wing nutbar might choose him as the Face of Right-Wing Evil to whom to mail a ricin-laced letter?

I mean, no offense to the junior Senator from Mississippi, but…why him?