Thanks!
(I think I’d still take some issue with your opinion that “mostly these losers are dudes who failed in the military and now want to play soldier when there is no real danger.” Especially the “mostly” part; I don’t think there’s enough evidence to support that, and having served honorably and with commendation Ritzheimer and Payne can’t really be said to have “failed” in the military. But I understand the frustration and the hyperbole.)
Hmmm. But they didn’t get that much publicity, and most of the many thousands of lunatics weren’t in communication with each other.
:smack: Perhaps that’s what I was missing.
They aren’t answering the phone anyway. I tried again.
Enraged Birders To Retake Oregon Wildlife Refuge In Dawn Offensive*
*not really, but I wish.
Now, lets be fair here, there are freeloaders in this scenario. Bundy leased Federal land, now not only doesn’t want to pay for it, but thinks he owns it.
ETA: If this entire episode isn’t an example of white privilege I don’t know what it is.
I like to imagine Bundy on one his tirades with a people in the background. One of them being an old indian giving him a dirty look.
I’m on my phone and too lazy to look it up right now, but I read an article yesterday that said federal grazing leases are 93% cheaper than leasing from land owners. Even with that good of a deal, they still decided it wasn’t enough.
But he pays taxessssssss!
I’m in favor of having a busload of liberal democrats with long hair and bleeding hearts pull up next to their compound and wag their fingers at them in shame.
Kinda busy, but you go ahead.
I’d do it, but my hair is too short.
Yep, for every $1 the BLM receives in grazing fees it spends ~$8 managing them. It is a more of a welfare program than anything else. But that isn’t good enough for the Bundy’s
The article was on 538, but to be fair to Bundy, it seems that he would have gladly kept paying the [heavily subsidized] leasing fees if the BLM had allowed him to do so. In 1993 the BLM made a bunch of changes, including prohibiting grazing and off-road vehicles in areas it decided to protect as tortoise habitat. Bundy et al could have continued to lease other federal land somewhere else and move their cattle, but they felt that they had a right to use the same land that they’d grazed them on for decades.
Clearly it’s not about the money for him, it’s about his hatred of tortoises.
It does make it all the more confusing, though. Bundy wants that land either sold into private hands, or given over to Nevada (who would presumably sell it into private hands), under the assumption that the new private owners would gladly take his money in exchange for letting him graze there. But grazing fees on private land would almost certainly be higher than the subsidized federal rate, so even disregarding the fact that he’s illegally using land that’s not his, his desired end state puts him in a worse financial position than if he just played along with the government. He’s nothing if not principled.
The Hammonds, likewise, seem to object to having to honor the public land that their own private land abuts, but only because it’s public. They were told to put up a fence to keep their cattle off the public land, but they seem to think that public means “anyone can do whatever they want with it, including negligently letting their cattle wander onto it and/or burn parts of it.” I’m not sure if they want the land to be privatized as well, but presumably if it was, the new owners would be even more strict about stray cows and fires. Boggles the mind.
It is common for the sovereign citizen types to believe that endangered animals are a myth. This is why they took over a bird refuge even though it is one of only 3 for migrating birds in the entire state of Oregon.
They do not care about the land like good ranchers do, they only care about the money that they can extract from it.
As a genital who grew up in the land of Zion I have often been critical of the LDS church on this board but I do need to give them kudos for their statement against this act.
Well that’s an unfortunate typo.
Don’t be a dick
Hah…damn you chrome spell check, gentile shows up with a read underline and wants to correct to body parts. But I assume that my non-converting family and I were called a few terms for genitals purely because we would not convert.
Can I bring up that massacre thingy now? Just to be a genital.
What’s complicated? They are all free to leave at any time. AIUI, the children are not being held hostage, and they haven’t been threatened with harm by anyone. Cut off resources, and when they leave to find richer environs, it ends.