The Bundys are at it again.

[davidm]

@bmoak

…

IIRC, theres’s not a single bank account, deed, or asset owned in Cliven’s name. Everything is property of the wife.

Are the business, the cattle, etc. in her name? If so bill her for the grazing fees and, if she doesn’t pay, attach her assets.

Is there some reason they can’t do that?

[davidm]

@bmoak

I think that is what the government was originally planning to do after things cooled down. However, Cliven doesn’t bring his cattle to market anymore. He butchers them himself and sells the meat out of freezers on his ranch.
…

Can he make as much this way as opposed to selling to the packers? It seems like he’d have to butcher and sell a LOT of meat on his own. Can he make enough to keep his head above water?

[billfish678]

@davidm

Can he make as much this way as opposed to selling to the packers? It seems like he’d have to butcher and sell a LOT of meat on his own. Can he make enough to keep his head above water?

So, he is probably running his ranch in an even crappier way profit wise than actually just paying pennies per acre (and well under fair market value) for grazing rights.

So, he is tanking his ranch through stupidity and probably blaming the government for it.

[davidm]

@eschereal

On the subject of whether they are/were terrorists,
*… When (Scott) Carrier arrived at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, he quickly found a member of the militia to speak with: Brand Thornton, who had driven up from Las Vegas to join Ammon Bundy and others in the standoff…

According to Thornton, spirituality wasn’t secondary to the group’s mission — it was a central part of it. “I have to call this a spiritual organization,” he said. “Really, we don’t have any leaders, per se… The spirit of god is the leader. And Ammon (Bundy) received that spiritual message and he conveys it.”

When Carrier asked about the justification for the occupation, Thornton referenced the Declaration of Independence, saying, “When government becomes corrupted, you actually have the sacred obligation and responsibility to replace that government.” But when Carrier asked about the religious justification, Thornton cited Section 98 of the LDS “Doctine and Covenants,” a sacred text that comprises revelations to the Mormon prophets, particularly Joseph Smith.

In Thornton’s interpretation of this section, when the government commits egregious acts, the first step of the people is to petition the government. But if those petitions go unanswered, it’s possible to do something called a “priestly curse” — a process that involves a person petitioning the Lord against their oppressors while washing their own feet. Thornton told Carrier that when he got to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, it was the first thing he did.*

I’m not sure that that relates to terrorism but the fact that there’s such a strong religious component to their “movement” is troubling. It’s hard to reason with people who think that they’re on a mission from God and that God has explicitly promised them something that they believe is being taken from them.

[CannyDan]

I thought commercial slaughterhouses were regulated, and under inspection by the USDA. Is this another little “freedom” Cliven receives? The freedom to sell possibly contaminated meat? (I’m thinking *E. coli *from intestinal contents, which I think I recall is pretty common even in inspected facilities. Not suggesting the Bundys traffic in industrial waste. Although that is possible too, in Libertopia. Freedom!)

[Evil_Economist]

@Ann_Hedonia

Here’s another nugget of comedy gold, an article about one of the last holdouts, the tech geek David Fry.

How A Digital Friendship Created An Unlikely Holdout - OPB

That actually made me feel sorry for him; I suspect he has some unresolved mental health issues. He’s about the age where schizophrenia generally manifests, right?

[Ludovic]

@TroutMan

Sympathy for the middle child? Not local, not federal, always stuck in middle.

As a wise person once said, “Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!”

Or, in this case, “Marshal, Marshal, Marshal.”

[Aspenglow]

@CannyDan

I thought commercial slaughterhouses were regulated, and under inspection by the USDA. Is this another little “freedom” Cliven receives? The freedom to sell possibly contaminated meat? (I’m thinking *E. coli *from intestinal contents, which I think I recall is pretty common even in inspected facilities. Not suggesting the Bundys traffic in industrial waste. Although that is possible too, in Libertopia. Freedom!)

There are some ways around USDA regulations that are commonly employed here in Oregon. If you raise livestock, you can sell any animal “on the hoof” to a buyer, then have the animal slaughtered (or slaughter it yourself) and give the processed meat to the buyer of the live animal. This approach is commonly used by small producers who may raise a few cattle or pigs for their personal freezers and have animals left over to sell.

If the meat is processed by a mobile butcher – and there are a good number of those in Oregon – then the packaged meat is labeled “Not inspected, not for sale.”

I doubt Oregon is the only state where this approach is used, so if the Bundys do something similar on their Nevada ranch it may be legal to a point. However, if they’re using this method as a means of sidestepping USDA regulations to make a living, then I expect the USDA would be very interested in pursuing violations.

[MacCat]

@Evil_Economist

That actually made me feel sorry for him; I suspect he has some unresolved mental health issues. He’s about the age where schizophrenia generally manifests, right?

David Fry is reminding me of Adam Lanza.

@Aspenglow

I doubt Oregon is the only state where this approach is used, so if the Bundys do something similar on their Nevada ranch it may be legal to a point.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas…

[davidm]

@Aspenglow

…
However, if they’re using this method as a means of sidestepping USDA regulations to make a living, then I expect the USDA would be very interested in pursuing violations.

It doesn’t seem like anyone is interested in pursuing violations.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Considering it took 15 years of litigation and an armed standoff to not collect any grazing rights fees I can only imagine what it would cost the USDA to inspect Bundy’s slaughtering facilities.

[CannyDan]

@Aspenglow

…I expect the USDA would be very interested in pursuing violations.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I had no idea. As for this expectation, no, I’m with RNATB on that score.

[enipla]

@BrainGlutton

I think eschereal is trying to say that this is where “libertarianism” leads:

OK. Since know one yet had mentioned libertarianism, I was not sure where that was going.

eschereal, did not mean to be snarky.

[jasg]

The judge has arrived in Burns, convened a grand jury and issued its findings.

@Superior Court Judge for the CONTINENTAL United States

Bruce Doucette
Superior Court Judge
For the Continental united States
Phone:
Pursuant to the Constitution for the united States of America, duly convened and assembled in the Counties of Harney and Grant, in the State of Oregon, the Common Law Grand Jury composed of twenty five American Citizens […]
do come together to see the facts presented in the case of: The pre-meditated “Aggravated Murder” in cold blood of the Rancher and Cowboy Mr. Robert “LaVoy” Finicum […] As evidence we have received the sworn testimony of two witnesses physically present, and evidence presented from a recorded video tape of a flying apparatus called a “drone” which had a camera incorporated […] Mr. Finicum was driving a motorized vehicle and was detained by an unlawful roadblock/barricade (aka “choke point” ) set up be a group of unidentified armed men in what is known as an “ambush” style position […] Mr. Finicum was murdered by at least three men constituting a pre-meditated conspiracy to commit first degree murder, which can be considered to be an “execution” […] we the Constitutional Common Law Grand Jury do hereby decide the following: To immediately ORDER the Sheriffs of Harney and Grant Counties to search for, locate, and arrest those men involved in this “ambush” style attack on Mr. Robert “ LaVoy” Finicum.
To ORDER all Militia in the area to search for, locate, and arrest those men involved in this “ambush” style attack on Mr. Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, together with, or independently of, the activities of the Sheriffs of Harney and/or Grant Counties. It is so ORDERED.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

The text you quote is not at the link in your post (the link is from 12 January 2016). Where did you find it?

[bup]

Well, it’s on a cached-version of a page of those unstoppable purveyors of TRUTH: Before It’s News.

[enipla]

@Snowboarder_Bo

The text you quote is not at the link in your post (the link is from 12 January 2016). Where did you find it?

Wonder if that phone number is legit… hehehe…

[TroutMan]

Looks like it comes from this Facebook post.

[BrainGlutton]

@jasg

The judge has arrived in Burns, convened a grand jury and issued its findings.

Here come da Judge! Here come da Judge! Here come da Judge!

(Of course, Flip Wilson was always easier to take seriously.)

[Miller]

[Moderating]
jasg, I have removed the phone number from your quote. Please be a little more careful about posting other people’s contact information.
[/Moderating]