I’m really bummed. I was going to vote but got penciled in to work at the last minute. Fuck.
Nice OP. A trash talking rant to complain about trash talking.
Obama supporters all seem to feel that the rest of us should just recognize his greatness and the only appropriate response the other candidates should offer to his campaign is to bow out gracefully and endorse him. Well that’s not how it works. Nobody gets handed the nomination and nobody gets handed the presidency. If Obama can’t defeat Clinton how is he going to defeat the Republican nominee?
Personally, I don’t look for inspiration in a political candidate. I don’t want a president that reminds me of my father or mother. I don’t need a president to send a message or make me feel better about myself or America. I don’t want to drink a beer with the president. To me, a presidential campaign is an eighteen month long job interview and I’m just trying to hire the best applicant (and it’s just a temp job at that). It’s not an emotional process.
I guess I should give up hope that our politics might be something to be proud of in the future then. I’m 25. All I can remember was 8 years of Clinton triangulating and not making me happy and then Bush. I read about the great leaders of the past who actually DID inspire emotions out of people. If you’re telling me that we’re not capable of that anymore then we’re fucked. All of the great leaders of our nation weren’t chosen because they stood on the right side of all the issues.
Let’s not forget, this is NEVADA! Those people have been nuked for decades. They don’t even know night from day. 
My sympathies are with the OP. Just a few weeks ago, my own thread was titled Eat it Hillary!
Not at all. It’s just that harboring expectations that some candidate or another will actually usher in a golden postpartisan era, where everyone will sit down and rationally decide what course is best for nation, is unrealistic. It has never happened, it will never happen. We’re human after all.
That does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that we cannot still accomplish great things; things to be proud of. It just means that we’ll do those things while remaining true to our cantankerous and bastardly nature.
Yep, I’m part of the older generation, and the popularity of Obama amongst teenagers is very unsettling. Its clear to me that a large part of the vote for Obama is singularly emotional , based on his oratory and partly on his race (gender for Hillary).
Teenagers generally do not make good decisions. Parents know that and so do the scientists
Obama is following in Kennedy’s footsteps in more ways than one, but especially in his youthfulness. A relatively young Kennedy made a huge mistake in the beginning of his presidency with long lasting consequences wrt the Bay of Pigs which led to the Cuban Missile Crisis and the long tenure of communism in Cuba.
Kennedy did recover to become a revered president however.
I think that Obama could become a great president, but I really haven’t a clue what his presidency will be like. I just think he needs a few more years to make sure his frontal cortex is fully developed and that the citizens know him better.
In response to squink,
It’s not expecting the right to come around Obama. It’s about selecting a candidate that will make Republicans vote for him. But the thing is that he will never change his values. Democrats voted for Reagan against their own interests. I was hoping for a Democrat who can do the same for our side.
What people don’t seem to get about Obama is not that he will bring about bipartisan whatever. He might, but the big thing is that he very well could give the Democrats more power than any other possible candidate. He does well in the south and in rural areas. People always say that Republicans fall in love and Democrats fall in line. Obama has the certain something that has made many republicans winners. He is very emotionally appealing. Except he has good ideas too.
It’s not just teenagers that are for Obama, but essentially everyone below the baby boom line.
Teenagers liking Obama? Who gives a shit what they think. I’m sick of more of the same. I’m don’t want to give up on civics in America but I certainly will if it turns out that Hillary wins. This is not sour grapes. I’m just sick of the establishment left and right. Democrats piss me off equally as much as the Republicans although i’m decidedly liberal. Why is that so? Because they are so unimaginative. All they do is disappoint and compromise. I’m sick of it. And to make matters worse they are just as guilty of pork-barrel spending as the Republicans. That’s pathetic and worthless.
Fortunate that I’m a scientist and not a teenager, then. My rational judgement prevails!
Obama’s 46. His cortex is pretty much as developed as it’s going to be. Unless you mean that he hasn’t gone through the cognitive decline that inevitably occurs with age?
This is kind of an odd conceptual discontinuity you have going on here. You want to go back to when America was great, but the Baby Boomers keep dragging the past into it? You want new ideas that will bring back the golden age?
You are confused, and yet you aren’t. Meditate on this.
See, I’ve no desire to have the democrats appeal to the sort of folks who approve of torture, hate gays, want our phones tapped, and love throwing money into pointless and destructive military adventures overseas. I want such asshats marginalized for a generation or more. Playing nice with them won’t accomplish that.
I don’t see a problem at all with my views. The past doesn’t include all of the Clintons. Inspirationaly presidents died as far as I’m concerned with Reagan. He wasn’t my kinda guy, but hell he changed the country. Bill Clinton did not.
The Clintons are above all out to protect themselves. It’s a gut reaction from the right-wing attacks of the 90’s to be sure, but to use their dirty tactics against the Obama camp is just pathetic. It’s only because HRC knows she can’t win on charisma, she can’t even win on experience. She simply has to sully Obama because he’s led a very dignified (adult) life. Unlike her. She road Bills semen stained coattails (thanks Boyo Jim) into her political position. She’s lead a disgraceful life, and knows she can’t compete.
Look, objectively a Clinton presidency wouldn’t be terrible. In fact if it were between her and Kerry I would probably lean to her. But I am now disgusted by her and her behavior. She only is where she is because of her husband’s political machine. Her 35 years experience with change? Would she care to actually detail the particulars of this experience other than looking the other way while Bill gets a hummer? They are purely depraved power-grabbers. i happened to be aligned with them during Bill’s term, but now this is no longer the case. They are fighting dirty against my guy and it pisses me off because she isn’t qualified for shit. Everything she had her hands on turned to shit during Bills time. I never liked that about Hillary. It was solidified by the fact that she ran for NY Senator. It was obviously the only state possible since it had good numbers for her and allowed her to run (unlike her native Chicago. She had no roots in NY). I had her figured out after I realized that she had to be staying with Bill for a reason. Bill was simply too good politically to let go.
ETA: Yes, Squink, that’s exactly those republicans I mean. Btw, did you ever stop to think that maybe Obama won’t appeal to those voters on those terms? Maybe he can convince people that such a thing is wrong? In the same way that Bush convinced the country to go to a stupid war? People aren’t immovable by politicians. We aren’t simply pegs within which the politicians position themselves. It’s about shaping the consensus of the country for the better.
What? Do you really believe that Lincoln and Kennedy and FDR and Jefferson didn’t play politics? They had their friends and their enemies just like modern politicians do. They took care of their friends and they outfought their enemies. They sacrificed principles for the sake of getting things done. They’d told lies when they thought they had to. Hillary Clinton can’t afford to be a statesman yet - she’s still alive so she has to be a politician.
Of course he wouldn’t. But however he went abnout it, he’d bring those folks into the democratic party, where they’d promote their own views on all sorts of issues. Just look at what the outgrowths of the Moral Majority have done to the Republicans. Is that something we want?
Maybe he can. I’m more interested in seeing the country move in the right direction than in conducting remedial cognition classes for the nation’s reactionaries.
I was never too fond of Bill, and I don’t like Hillary much either, but at least neither is trying to make nice with forces that got us into our current messes.
Except for putting down the gays the Democrats have historically and currently support all the other three.
I think it would be Nixon redux.
OP: Boo freaking hoo – democracy has happened and the voters in NV and NH chose someone you don’t like.
The system works!
Basically. But I’ve been seeing two contrasting threads in the so-called progressive netroots which makes me laugh, although I might be missing something. They like Obama for his ability to connect with and work across the aisle, to appeal to run of the mill, salt of the earth Republicans, and they think if he was POTUS he could begin the national healing that is needed after Bush. I think that’s a whole lot of nonsense, but it seems like a widespread and honestly held opinion. But simultaneously and going back several years they have loudly complained about Democrats caving into what the GOP wants on almost any issue. They’ve complained that bipartisanship = the GOP supporters get what they want, Democrat supporters get brushed to the side. They want a strong Democrat who will stand up for liberal values without blinking in the face of the opposition.
Oil and water, I would think. Yet off they go, citing the latest poll showing how much Republicans lurrrve Obama.
Well here’s a genuine Baby Boomer™ (56 years old) to respond to all the “compliments” tossed around in this thread.
So we’re behind the times and have old ideas? Maybe. One thing of which I am almost certain is that Hillary or Obama will never get elected President in 2008. Attitudes and voting preferences have changed considerably over the past decades - but they haven’t changed that much whereby a woman or an African-American can expect to be President in 2008. (Okay, technically Jan 20, 2009 - so sue me).
As for eliminating the right to vote for citizens over 60 (perhaps 65) years of age?
Fine, but in return I’d like to see the younger crowd acquire a new responsibility - bring back the draft and have it applicable to everyone 18 to 50 years of age. Add to that an unpopular war, and you just might see why we were such a pissed-off generation.
This posting was written mostly in a humorous tone, but I hope I have given you youngsters something to think about. Just think, in a few decades I’ll have shuffled off this mortal coil and you’ll be old fogey mid 50’s types telling the youngsters your words of wisdom. 
I’d type more but I feel the cognitive decline of old age rearing its ugly head.
And can’t you children play someplace else? :mad:
Well, bipartisanship is perfectly acceptable as long as you don’t have to compromise.
Can you not fucking understand the idea that people will support him based on his character rather than his views? Is that so fucking hard to understand? That would heal the divide without compromising Obama.
Jesus Christ I realize it’s fucking hard to understand but some people DO vote that way. Why the hell do you think Bush won over Gore in 2000? Bush won more independents.
Obama would easily win the election with Independents. They like him much more than they like Hillary. Obama always beats Hillary in rural areas of the states. Has he compromised his values on iota on the campaign? NO!
If you want compromise you’ll get that with Hillary who will squeak by at best. It will be the same situation as now except with her as prez triangulating and whoring herself out to big biz at every opportunity.
Obama will at the very least bring in loads of independents. Plus, who better to beat McCain? Hillary cannot do it. Simply cannot.