Another thing to add about online dating, especially on places like match where you can let others know you looked at their profile: take it easy!
If a guy likes you and he looks at your profile, cool. It says he’s interested and wants you to know (because you can hide the fact that you look at a profile). Please don’t do what one guy did to me: every time I would look, he’d have looked at my profile to the point it seemed as if he were doing it many many times. It really creeped me out. Moreover, he began posting at message boards where I posted. Yikes!
I don’t do it much. I’d probably be better at it if I did; I just can’t get past the idea that I’m going to have to fail so many times before I learn enough to start getting results.
I was told that by a friend in college, and when I weighed that against what it meant to me to fail - something that as a depressive and cynic, I had no strategies to cope with - I decided dating was not for me.
I’m now in my early 40s, and my social life has been, in large part, defined by the implications of that idea ever since. It has made me bitter, regretful, and feeling helpless. I still lack those coping strategies.
I’m fairly smooth with women - funny, helpful, informed, even forward and flirtatious in small ways. You’d probably like me. But only when we’re both involved with something outside ourselves (a class, something funny on the street, etc. etc.). Take away the context, when all there is is she and I, and I close up like a tomb.
This is largely true with male friends, or M/F potential friends, as well. I suspect I’m too cynical to care about really working to cultivate people after all this time. And that is death. It makes a person both nervous and boring. You’re absolutely correct about that.
My bloviating upthread about the unwritten rules of when who should call whom is really just blowing smoke. That was the approved topic of the thread. It pushed my buttons, but only to talk about what bullshit I feel dating is, and yet how unavoidable it is. The calling rules were my “way in.”
I imagine if I could work up enough enthusiasm about a positive aspect of any topic, I’d be on my way to cracking the social codes. I just wish positive emotions were as relevant in my life. They’re usually so transitory, so weak. I guess that’s the cynic’s cross to bear: happy fun talk just doesn’t make a lot of difference to us, at least not when it’s something ordinary enough to share with others.
This is bull. Plenty of guys will not make a move just because they like a girl. Actual guys have popped up to tell you that they would not respond in this way. But that’s irrelevant to you. Because you think a certain way, every other person in the world must think the same way.
And it’s a double standard. A woman will sit and wait for the guy to call back. He has to show interest by doing so. How about you, who are the one who is clearly interested, actually show the interest. Why is it bad for us to not show obvious interest, but it’s okay for you?
It is a power game: keeping for yourself the ability to reject, rather than be rejected.
And plenty of women in this thread have told you that they would find that waiting a week unacceptable, an indication of a man’s lack of interest.
Whether we like it or not, long-standing tradition is that men do the initiating. Judging by what I’m seeing here, that hasn’t disappeared from the the culture in the several decades since I was young. Women, including old me, can and do indicate interest unprompted, but the norm is for the man to initiate. You’re right that it’s a double standard. What you don’t seem to realize is that it’s not all to the woman’s benefit, nor is it some kind of set up in order to give woman all the power. On the contrary. By strict tradition, a woman has ONLY the power to take or leave what she is offered. Of course, the reality is that the lines have always been somewhat fluid, and the power is ALWAYS with the person less interested, regardless of his or her sex.
Lurker and I and others in this thread have tried to show that, if a guy doesn’t show some kind of interest in a second meeting/date/contact of some kind within a week of a first date, we are inclined to believe that, even if the guy is interested, it’s just not important enough to him to be bothered with, and we’re better off trying to find someone who does think it important enough. It’s not a power game; it’s as blunt as possible an assessment of the facts as we know them. We’re not trying to play games and find men to reject; we’re trying to find someone who is truly interested in us and vice versa.
Your policy, BigT, of waiting for a week before you call may work for you, in which case more power to you. We’re just trying to tell you that it won’t work, in fact will backfire, for a fair number of us. But if it’s getting you the kind of woman you want, fine. Carry on.
Whoops, this thread has really gone places while I was away. Here’s a small update:
I eventually ended up texting the woman in the OP, basically telling her that I’ll stop pestering her and wishing her good luck on her search for “that special someone”. She replied, saying that she’d felt we lacked chemistry and apologized for being so vague earlier.
After that, I went out with a couple more women, until eventually I found one that just felt like the right one straight away when we met. We ended up talking for hours and hours, eventually getting interrupted by her friend calling, wondering why she hadn’t shown up for a meeting. We’ve gone out a couple of times after that. And this looks to be heading somewhere very nice.
In conclusion, I don’t think there really is a “game”. Except for a silly version pushed by lad/ladies mags and others interested in making things seem more complicated than they are, so they can offer you their “help”. The differences between individual personalities dwarf the differences between the genders, and you need to be looking for the right person, and not the right man/woman.
PS. A relationship where there’s a constant contest on who has “the power”, isn’t one where I’d want to be in the first place.
PS. PS. I ended up mentioning in my profile on the dating site that I “appreciate honesty, straight-forwardness and lack of playing stupid games”. It turns out there are women who appreciate those too…
Frankly, what a woman says is irrelevant. Of COURSE they would like you to call…that way they can decide to accept or reject you etc etc as I said before.
Look…I can only say that in my experience, my success with the opposite sex skyrocketed after I started doing the contraversial stuff I had talked about in posts in theis thread.
All I can say is that if you are a guy and having trouble…TRY THEM. Hell, don’t even try it on all women…try it on half…then compare. If it works better, use it. If it doesn’t, don’t.
But, for the love of all that is holy…please, please, PLEASE do NOT listen to women for advice on women. You will get great sounding advice that will sink you fast.
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Beware of Doug…
I am sorry you have no coping with rejection. However, I must strongly emphasize that not everything worth having has a high success rate. There are many areas of life where you have to go through tons of rejection before you have a success and you have to go through tons of crap that you need to try to recognise as crap and avoid it.
Think your first job search after college. Usually tons and tons of rejection. It’s the nature of the game.
If you will accept some advice from some asshat sounding dude from the Internet…
Ask for a woman’s phone number at least once a week. Doesn’t matter who…just that you don’t know her. You may not even be all that attracted to her but the week is coming to a close and you promised yourself.
See someone in the grocery store…walk up to her and ask something casual…like where is the X. If she acknowledges your presence and looks you in the eye and smiles ask for her number.
Yes, you will get rejected almost for certain…you KNOW that. Accept it. Do it anyway. It may be the hardest thing you’ve ever done, but do it. It does get easier with practice.
You’d also be surprised that it works from time to time.
There are plenty of reasonable scenarios in which a man who is genuinely interested in you (and only you) wouldn’t call for seven days. Assuredly they aren’t the norm, but it’s ridiculous to presume the only possibilities are unconsciousness or lack of true interest.
How about a family/friend death or other health emergency?
Or a work-related crisis that requires long hours, or travel?
Or a previously planned vacation that takes one out of the country for a week?
Seriously, is it totally implausible that something could come up that might take ultimate priority for a single week? I’m not saying this is the case every time, but to utterly rule out the possibility that anything could come up (short of total unconsciousness) to divert an otherwise-interested man’s attention for just seven days seems a little closed-minded to me.
If a man called me and told me that he was sorry he didn’t call sooner but his mother or father died the day after our date, I would be all tea and sympathy. Honestly, how often in your life have you not called a woman after a date because an immediate family member or your best friend died?
To a third world country with no phones, email or other means of communication? A simple “LINJ, I had a wonderful time with you Saturday night and I hope we can go out again very soon. We’ve had an emergency in our Congo office, and I won’t be back for a week. Is it ok if I call you as soon as I get back?” Really, how hard or time consuming is that?
If he can’t manage to work it into the conversation that he is leaving for France in the morning and won’t be back for two weeks, he probably doesn’t have the level of communication skills I am looking for.
Usually tons and tons of rejection. It’s the nature of the game.