I’m kind of embarrassed to admit I know this, but you don’t need the “to” there.
Why need an editor? Words are wind. Now eat your pease.
-Joe
I finally got this finished. This thread has cracked me up reminding me of his re-use of phrases. I never want to hear that something is as useless “as nipples on a breastplate” again When Jorah ended up with armour that not only had nipples, but nipple rings I laughed out loud.
I don’t want to go over too many things that have already been discussed but there are a couple of things that haven’t come up much in this thread.
Septa Lemore. Tyrion made a point of noticing that she had stretch marks and surmised that she’d been pregnant. So my mind jumped immediately to Lyanna Stark. Is there a chance she’s still knocking around? If the whole Jon Snow parentage question doesn’t get answered I’ll go nuts.
Selmy’s musings on that girl that had a stillborn daughter and then killed herself. Did Ned Stark have an affair after all and get someone pregnant?
In my idea of the backstory it was always that Rhaegar had gotten Lyanna pregnant. She died giving birth to Jon. Knowing what Robert had done to Rhaegar’s other children she made Ned swear that Jon was his. Then she died. Did she live? And if so did Ned know? One of my arguments about Jon being Lyanna’s son was that Ned always seemed too noble to have had an affair. So that reason might be gone now if he really did have one.
Other than that I’ve been really disappointed in the last 2 books. Lots of waffle, filler and padding. I don’t care about anyone in Dorne, any of the Ironborn, and sad to say I don’t care about Dany.
I love that nobody in this thread thinks that Jon is properly dead. I bet GRRM thought it would be a huge twist. As soon as it happened I thought “Meh, he’ll be back.”
I just finished. I know it took me forever, but I knew I’d be in for another looong wait, so I tried to savor it. And I actually enjoyed it. Enough to start a reread immediately.
As far as Jon and Dany’s actions being out of character, Jon has struggled with his vows several times before. He almost deserted when Ned was accused of treason. And again when Robb went south. He may have merely done his duty by obeying the Halfhand and joining the wildlings, but he also slept with Ygritte, which he could have just refused. And Dany: we met her as a timid young girl who only grew into her own as khaleesi. I think that in conquering Meereen and becoming queen, relying less on her khalasar (granted, not all Dothraki at that point) may have made her revert somewhat. She wants to be a great and just ruler, but in the end she is “just a young girl, and know(s) little of such things.”
Also, upthread aways, someone said that Aegon would have been younger than Dany. But I noticed on reread this am that in her first chapter, she muses on only having been conceived when Aegon was “killed”. Tyrion guesses “Young Griff” to be 15 or 16. Tyrion may have judged him slightly too young, or, as others have mentioned, he isn’t actually a Targaryen. I have made no judgement as to his validity as of yet,
Dany is in no way younger than Aegon, she was born months after the fall of kings landing in dragonstone.
Yes…and Aegon was already born (“a babe in arms”) before Robert’s Rebellion. He’s the kid that was supposed to have had his brains dashed out against a wall by the Mountain.
ETA: Wait…I think you either mistyped or I misread. Dany IS younger than Aegon. The person you’re responding to said that Aegon was younger than Dany.
My first guess regarding Septa Lemore’s identity would be that she is Ashara Dayne, mostly because there aren’t many other candidates.
Lady Dayne would also be the girl that Ned got pregnant, but it would not have been an affair if it happened during the tourney at Harrenhal, at that time Cathelyn was betrothed to Ned’s brother, not Ned. It would still be a smudge on his honour to have a child out of wedlock, but he didn’t cheat on his wife.
Ooops, yeah i meant the opposite. What are the chances that Septa Lenore is actually Lyanna and Aegon is Lyanna and Rhaegars son?
Are we really speculating that Ned was mistaken about having his sister die in his arms? That’s ridiculous.
Or that Ned was lying because of a promise he made.
He made it pretty clear that Lyanna was actually dying/dead when she extracted his promise. He wasn’t telling this to anyone…he was remembering it to himself, so he had no incentive to lie.
I still say we’re never going to know for sure what happened at the Tower of Joy (if we ever do) until Howland Reed actually comes into the story in person. He IS the only surviving member of that expedition.
No, he remembered her “in her bed of blood” which has been used several times to mean childbirth.
Who’s buried in her tomb at Winterfell then?
Lyanna would be like 30 if she was alive. Doesn’t Tyrion think Lemore is older?
Does it matter? could be anyone, there was a war on.
Closer to mid thirties, but yeah Tyrion does think she is older but he could be wrong. Griff thinks of her as “Lady Lemore” at some point, so she had to be someone important.
Well, not if you think Ned is the only person that saw the body.
She was born in 268 AL and Ned died in 298 SL. So she’d be like 32? 33? That’d be a fairly big mistake. Much more so than making a mistake of a much younger person in Young Griff.
In any case, on page 44 of the Bantam softcover, Ned explicitly thinks about holding her hand while she dies. Not telling Robert where he would have a reason to lie, but thinking it. She’s dead unless Ned was insane.
I’ve just finished and am mildly positive overall, but then again I liked A Feast for Crows as well. I agree the Dany chapters dragged a bit, as did the Jon chapters for me. My favourite bits were the Theon/Reek part and the Barristan Selmy chapters.
Quentyn’s failed quest was fine with me, as was the appearance of young Griff. All in all I think things a re bing put in place for a suitably epic conclusion. Shame we’re going to have another 5 year wait by all accounts though.
Really? what about every middle-aged woman in Westeros? I’m not saying she’s absolutely nobody we’ve met or heard of, but isn’t that more likely?
Certainly, let me amend that to: “…there aren’t many other named or otherwise identifiable candidates.”
If you have any other suggestions I’m all ears, but if we assume she is someone we haven’t heard of before then speculating about her identity almost pointless.
Well, if she is lying about who she is, but isn’t anyone relevant to the plot, then that’s some awkward storytelling.
I disagree. Is book 5 too late to introduce a new character? Perhaps one with a background that will be revealed later?