elf6c, while I get where you are coming from I want to offer you a slightly alternative point of view.
It seems to me that there is this strange hierarchy that exists among the ranks of the oppressed. I would argue that, in terms of a stated goal of fostering equality among all people, that this is counterproductive.
To be sure, being denied employment or promotions, being mercilessly teased and abused by both students and teaches in school, being denied second story housing or health insurance and so forth is not the same as being hung on a fence to die or being dragged behind a truck until you die.
That being said, it does not mean that fat people are not suffering from conditions that are far worse than “being picked on”. Calling something abusive and discriminatory because, quite frankly, it is does not take away anything from folks that have suffered worse oppression. Quite the opposite, actually, if I can point out that a type of behavior (while admittedly not as bad) is at least on the same slippery slope as other kinds of horrible behavior, I may have a chance of making someone see something in a new light.
See, here’s how I see it. If I were hit by another person and they sped off, and they happened to be female and overweight, hell YES I’d call them a “fat bitch” rightaway. Just as I’d call someone an “ugly shithead”, if they happened to be one when they ran into me.
Heat of the moment. I got hit by another car, and they drive off, the least they deserve is a long string of insults, interspersed with wished-upon terminal diseases, remarks about their mothers, and something about the equestrian cattle they arrived on.
Thing is, those words probably wouldn’t occur to me as a thread title choice when I posted about it a few hours later. And c’mon, Keith Berry, you’ve been here for years. What did you expect people to focus on after that rant? Your slightly dented Mustang?
A moments research has revealed hundreds of hits on Google of stories of children that committed suicide because they were bullied. Bullied because of their weight.
Picked on because they’re fat - and now their dead.
I’m sure that their parents will be hartened to know that the fact that their children were bullied to death because of their weight is inconsequencial when comparied to the death of another teenager killed because he was gay.
I’m sure it’s reassuring to children who are overweight that the constant torment by their classmates, depression and suidical feelings are really small potatoes compaired to others.
I’m sure that every fat person that is miserable, bullied, picked on, threatened, and yes murdered, because of their weight feels better knowing that, in your opinion, their problems are small.
Get a clue. If you’re tormented to death, or if someone shoots you in the head, you’re still dead.
To people who aren’t fat, or aren’t sensitive about anti-fat insults, I can see how the OP just looks like anger directed at the individual who did something unforgivably wrong and stupid to the OP. Being angry at the idiot who hit your car is absolutely reasonable, as is screaming every mean thing that pops into your head at them.
But, to someone who is fat, or is familiar with the frequent abuse heaped on fat people in our society, the OP’s continual connection of the driver’s obesity with being disgusting and worthless changes the OP from a very reasonable grievance against an idiot into an attack on obesity and overweight people as a group. I don’t think this was the intent of the OP – he was just angry at this woman, and very rightfully trying to be hurtful toward her. But that doesn’t change the fact that any overweight person who opened this thread just got insulted based on the actions of some random dipshit. fat = doomed, pathetic failure.
I don’t really see the difference if the driver had been identifiably gay, and the OP had said that he was on his way home to sodomize his children, who would probably grow up to be homo child molesters themselves. Once your insults target the group the individual belongs to and just not the individual themselves, don’t be surprised if it pisses people off.
A thoughtful post Binarydrone, but I am not sure I agree very much. There is such a quantum leap between someone being “picked on” or doing poorly in a job inteview ect (not that those don’t suck) and organized and systematic murder, torture and rape, that to equate the two:
as alice_in_wonderland did is an offensive position to take. The two are not in any way shape or form equal.
Even assuming an apples to apples comparison, say job application doesn’t work for that argument. There may be perfectly valid reasons why a morbidly obese person would be denied a shot at a position based on their weight. Police, Fire, EMT, Military, Swimsuit model are possibilities where a valid argument could be made. Now can you think of one for racial, religous or sexual orientation? Of course not. That is why the comparison is so offensive.
On preview: alice_in_wonderland
How about stopping by the Holocost museum, and picking me up a clue. Or try Googling “genocide” or “lynching” you get a lot more cites with a lot more authority then the sole dubious Cite you provided. I would imagine for every one valid Cite you could muster will be a thousand detailing the very real horrors faced by the victims of racial and religious discrimination.
But given your attitude and posts here I can see giving you the benefit of the doubt, or a clue, was a mistake. One I will not repeat.
And what would be the point in me posting all the threads relating to fat abuse?
You are clearly being obtuse on this point.
My post was not offensive - the abuse suffered by large people is just as real and hurtful as that suffered by gays, muslims, women, blacks, or people with bad skin.
Why you would insist on suggesting that a child mocked and tormented because of their weight shouldn’t be given the same degree of sympathy as one targeted for any other reason is totally beyond me.
And, if I get you correctly - the fact that Reena was brown was not a valid reason to murder her, but the fact that she was fat, is?
Is that what your saying? Had she been a fat white girl there would have been no issue here?
alice_in_wonderland, If I may be permitted to say so, I think that you may be missing the point. I think that elf6c is saying that race played a more important role in the murder of the person that you used as a cite. Indeed, the argument seems to be that troubles faced by the obese are not really in the same ballpark as those faced by other oppressed peoples (such as racial cultural minorities and homosexuals/other sexual minorities).
I really do not get the feeling that elf6c is trying to say that murder is ok, or that fat people do not suffer in some ways. Rather, the impression that I get is that he (used in the proper grammatical sense as I lack specific knowledge of the posters gender) has issues with obesity being classed on the same plane as the horrors suffered by other oppressed groups.
I am not sure that I 100% get this type of thinking, but I do see what he is saying. Some of this may have to do with the first hand experience that I had being raised by a morbidly obese woman. I know from being with her day in and day out that she suffered oppression and outright abuse at the hands of society. I have to fight pretty hard to not get my back up when it feels that someone is making light of this suffering or misunderstanding how horrible it really was (she wound up killing herself in the end, BTW). But this is the thing, I do get that (although I think that it is a bit more systematic than we may think) her suffering is not as bad as genocide.
That said, it still seems to me that all of this horror that we confront is at different points on the same spectrum and that it makes sense to talk about it in those terms. In the end, I do not think that it is productive or useful to try to compare which group has it worse rather I think that what we should focus on is the fact that oppression in any form should not be tolerated. And this is the part that makes me sad, I think that you and elf6c have essentially the same moral convictions about this matter and that you are both polarizing over semantic differences. There really are enough horrible adversaries out there, and none of us need to throw away potential allies.
Alice, the difference is that in the vast vajority of cases ( not all, no, but most ) being fat is something that is completely under that individual’s control. ( Or their parents, in the case of young children)
Being black or gay is not.
The two are not remotely equal, and it’s insulting for you to claim that they are, in fact, it looks like you’re just trying to load another group of people onto the victem wagon. Who’s next, people who’s mommies didn’t love them enough?
I didn’t say that. Reading comprehension is your friend.
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See above.
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You are not a smart person, you non-smart person you.
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And I see a big fat load of dumbassery coming from you.
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Feh.
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Agreed, and I never said otherwise.
You’re right–being morbidly obese (which is different than being fat) doesn’t mean she wouldn’t be a good, conscientious driver. But it certainly is some evidence that she would not be a good conscientious driver.
Why in hell can you not see the difference between the previous two sentences? Am I in some parallel universe here?
You clearly fall within the category of “beyond my ability to help you.” I’m done with you (see entry for “swine, casting pearls before”).
Not to start a Binarydrone fan club in this thread, but your post was spot on. While we may not agree 100% on this issue, it is always possible for reasonable people to do so, and still respect the position of the other person.
I just wanted to take the time to say how enjoyable it was exchanging thoughts with you. It reminds me of why we are here in the first place. I hope you have a nice weekend.
