Every single one of these shitters need to be primaried and/or voted out of office.
The far left in the USA, just the like far right, is totally compromised by Putin sympathy. I called Congressman Chuy Garcia’s office and expressed my extreme anger at him for backing Putin. I didn’t like him when he lost badly for mayor, but my disgust for this shitbag has been multiplied by a factor of a billion.
Progressives are Putin stooges at best, traitors at the worst.
Traitors? No.
Short-sighted tankies? Yes.
It’s empty platitudes, sure. But their linked letter actually just urges a negotiated settlement, without (despite their statement before the link) saying anything at all about what that negotiated settlement would look like. Realistically, I don’t think there’s any negotiation that’s going to end this, but just saying “let’s negotiate” isn’t inherently pro-Putin: That could include, for instance, a negotiation of “If you give up Crimea, we’ll let you keep Moscow”, which (if it could work, which it wouldn’t) I (and Ukraine) would be quite happy with.
I don’t have a problem with the letter as written, or at least with the content of the letter.
We write with appreciation for your commitment to Ukraine’s legitimate struggle against Russia’s war of aggression. Your support for the self-defense of an independent, sovereign, and democratic state has been supported by Congress, including through various appropriations of military, economic and humanitarian aid in furtherance of this cause. Your administration’s policy was critical to enable the Ukrainian people, through their courageous fighting and heroic sacrifices, to deal a historic military defeat to Russia, forcing Russia to dramatically scale back the stated goals of the invasion.
I mean, that’s all good.
Given the catastrophic possibilities of nuclear escalation and miscalculation, which only increase the longer this war continues, we agree with your goal of avoiding direct military conflict as an overriding national-security priority.
I think that’s also true. If the US military entered Ukraine to fight off Russia, that would probably escalate things in a dangerous way.
We are under no illusions regarding the difficulties involved in engaging Russia given its outrageous and illegal invasion of Ukraine and its decision to make additional illegal annexations of Ukrainian territory. However, if there is a way to end the war while preserving a free and independent Ukraine, it is America’s responsibility to pursue every diplomatic avenue to support such a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine. Such a framework would presumably include incentives to end hostilities, including some form of sanctions relief, and bring together the international community to establish security guarantees for a free and independent Ukraine that are acceptable for all parties, particularly Ukrainians. The alternative to diplomacy is protracted war, with both its attendant certainties and catastrophic and unknowable risks.
This all seems fine as well. What Russia has done is illegal and outrageous. Ukraine needs to remain free and independent, and Russia shouldn’t be given an inch of the country. Sanctions are in place as an incentive for Russia to stop these actions, and it would make sense to ease them if Russia cuts this shit out. The letter isn’t suggesting a compromise, such as giving Russia some of the land, or letting Russia put in a special ambassador to “guide” the country, or any other such bullshit that gives Russia any control of Ukraine.
I guess the problem I have is that the letter isn’t asking Biden to do anything that he’s not already trying to do. It’s like running up to firefighters who are putting out a blaze, and yelling at them that they need to put the fire out. No shit Sherlock. They already know that.
I also don’t like that the creation of this letter implies that Biden bears a responsibility for what Russia is doing and the suffering of Ukraine, and the ripple effects of the war such as scarcities and economic turmoil. As if Biden could put an end to this if he just cared enough to try. And it gives fuel to people criticizing Biden for things he has no control over; not just the war but gas prices, inflation, and so on.
Traitors? No. Tankies? No. (Plus they aren’t British.) But it’s politically stupid. Especially right before a midterm election. What the fuck are they thinking?!
I’m curious what the OP thinks of @Atamasama’s analysis. Either there has to be something there you seriously disagree with, or your OP is typical internet outrage based on reading a tweet and then spreading the message without thinking.
It’s hard to parse if anything concrete is meant by the letter, but “direct negotiation with Russia” implies that they’re advocating for the US to cut Ukraine out of the negotiations, which would essentially amount to a pro-Putin stance.
Frankly at best it means nothing. At worst it’s an endorsement of a lot of the disingenuous pro-Putin calls for the US to “negotiate” which essentially mean to bail Russia out of a war its losing by undercutting Ukraine’s diplomatic position.
I think the House Progressives know exactly what they’re doing. Just like the right wing Republicans who always try to see things from Russia’s point of view.
Yeah, I also don’t understand what’s wrong with this letter? The only way the war ends is through diplomacy. Continuing to supply Ukraine with materiel while urging talks, a cease fire, and a diplomatic end to the fighting seems like exactly what we should be doing.
Basically “We’ve got to make it known we progs have something to tell POTUS!” even if it’s nothing much different.
The other week some obvious Waters-ite types disrupted an Alexandria Ocasio Cortez event denouncing AOC as an enabler of war and demanding to know what was she going to do to prevent us all from getting nuked. So it seems that one of the lines of attack to create fractures is to attack those on the left for just rolling over for the Military-Industrial Complex.
The OP has it well-established in this board that he has a beef with the current crop of activist progs in Congress.
But it does show that the aforementined line of attack works. They become worried that we may be headed into another proxy war-without-end and economic crunch that will make 2024 a great year for you-know-who so they put out a weak-ass statement… that will only result in Biden being asked to react, and people on the other side decreeing them traitors.
What, specifically, do you object to? You’ve been calling out progressive Democrats for years, so I’m skeptical that this is more than just your personal beef with progressives.
Progressive Democrats.
Don’t play footsie with Putin, he started the war and the only acceptable peace is a complete withdrawal from Ukraine and restoring Ukraine’s boundaries. Joe Biden is NOT at fault and he should stand strong with Ukraine and not listen to shitbags on the left or right who coddle Russia
That’s what the letter asks for as well. The Progressive Caucus agrees with you.
However, if there is a way to end the war while preserving a free and independent Ukraine, it is America’s responsibility to pursue every diplomatic avenue to support such a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine.
I had forgotten that dalej42 is just an old fashioned racist. Here he shits on MLK Jr. Here, he shits on Naomi Osaka. Here he shits on Black Lives Matter. He just doesn’t like black people.
Nothing in the letter conflicts with this. You’re just an old-fashioned bigot, blinded by your bigotry.
Well, yes, as mentioned by someone else upthread they are a bit out of their lane if they’re saying the US should be pushing for a deal with Russia and never mind what Ukraine wants or deserves. Which wpuld be (a) unexpectedly pragmatic for supposed justice activists and (b) not what one proposes from the start.
As was said, politically stupid at this point in time but they are not advocating treason. Come on.
It would be nice if you didn’t bring up the false equivalence of the “far left” with the “far right”. Here’s what the MAGA’s say about Putin and Ukraine
I could go on…
Same quote as from the previous post.
However, if there is a way to end the war while preserving a free and independent Ukraine, it is America’s responsibility to pursue every diplomatic avenue to support such a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine.
There is no implication that they are interested in cutting Ukraine out.
They specifically ask Biden to find a solution that is acceptable to Ukraine.
Read the letter and quote the Tankie bits please.
This is nonsense.