The first (handshake) and fourth (hat) have been around since I was a little kid (over 40 years). It’s just common courtesy. I also eat whatever is put on your plate. Grew up in Maryland.
I’d be curious to find out which cultures, since my number one rule is: If offered food take it.
It does kind of bug me when people wear sunglasses where there’s no glare, because it gives me the same unsettling feeling as trying to make sense of an optical illusion. Or it did. One day I realized a lot of those people are high, and those that aren’t I can imagine are. Now it causes the same amused feeling as pretending your audience is naked.
The hat thing though, is ridiculous. It’s one of those traditions for which the irrational emotional attachment to versus actual resemblance to my sort of virtue … ratio is vastly skewed towards the former. It is also grossly sexist in both concept and execution, and kind of cruel or invasive in certain situations. I suspect it is one of those things that originated purely as a dominance display and somehow got misconstrued as manners. And it is purely anecdotal, but every person I’ve met who has expressed importance to it, tended to be a huge dick in other ways.
To take that notion even further, I’ve noticed two general approaches to manners and taboos, other than habit. The first is genuine care for other people. In those cases, the authenticity shines through, and the particulars of their behavior are almost irrelevant. They could do something which, described in words could be interpreted as rude, but in person and in context, becomes deeply kind. The second is those who follow codes of behavior for what must be either selfish or dysfunctional reasons, to validate a dysfunctional upbringing, to create a power dynamic, to put others in their debt, etc. These are often the same people trying on enforce their own codes on others. And despite bringing up issues of respect or morality, you never really feel like you are being respected or treats kindly.
I’m from: Netherlands, SE US, Pennsylvania. You pick.
*Shaking hands while standing, ungloved. Some exceptions- while blocked in while at table, or pissed because someone is rudely late. Even then an attempt to stand is mimicked.
*Hats off inside, unless golf cap when getting drinks at the turn.
*Conversations require sunglasses to come off, unless doing so is truly uncomfortable, because of intensity of the light etc., in which case, leaving them on is apologized for. Drive-thru =/= conversation. Merely ordering at the pool bar =/= conversation.
*If the sitter is female, a female drives her home, never the man
*The guy walks on the traffic side of the sidewalk when accompanying a woman.
*on-time is late. Early is on time. Being late is very rude. ( this one is Dutch, but still strong in me)
*When visiting someone’s home, bring flowers. (Very, very Dutch, and fading for me)
About the only one mentioned that really gets me is being on time. If you arrive at the stated time, you’re late, and making me late as well as crabby. The hat indoors is pure power play and sexism in one unsavory ball, I violate this one intentionally. I do take off a work glove to shake hands if the other person is barehanded. Its a matter of dirty gloves and presumably clean hands. The offered refreshments thing, it depends, I generally try to not accept, but in my work we are often offered drinks and food and if its hot enough, I will accept water.
In our family the rule(well one of them anyway) is to always explain the rules of service to guests, and different guests get different service depending on how close and familiar they are. The better the service, the less intimate the relstionship. If your cup is consistently refilled for you, probably never coming back to my house, or not with status beyond “guest” at any rate
I am genuinely amused about the hat kerfuffle, and why it is seen sexist and/or manipulative, even a power play? You don’t need it on when you’re indoors, and it conceals, either directly or by shade, part of your face. When my cave is invaded by a hat-wearer I’ll usually be mildly annoyed and just try to get over it. Cowboy hats, however, will move me to actually say something along the lines of “remove the hat, or remove yourself,” and it’s one of the few times I will become unkind without immediate compliance.
Eating what you’re served: when in Rome, don’t be a fuckin barbarian and make someone uncomfortable in their own home–you eat what you are served. If you can’t manage that, then don’t visit people at their homes. The corrllary is, if you’re serving a meal, make an effort to identify dietary issues and accommodate them.
And time: absolutely never be late because that means you value your own time more highly than the other person’s. I mean, be as late as you want if that’s the signal you want to send, I guess. 15 minutes early if meeting on neutral ground, on time is ok if you’re going to someone else’s cave–they might be making preparations right up until your anticipated arrival time, and it’s not cool to interrupt that.
The hat is to protect you from the sun and rain, of which there is none indoors. So, youy take it off unless it’s a jewish thing.
Especially larger hats, like cowboy hats as Inigo Montoya mentions. There are exceptions, like sports caps at game day, of course.
I never heard of "At meals you sit last, are served last, and start last. " because somebody has to go. That’s just plain silly.
Hats are dirty , wet, dusty, and what have you. Not too long ago you took off your hat and coat because it would get the house dirty.
Though this probably originated with removing your helmet as a sign of trust and non agression.
There is no sexism or power play. In fact the same rules apply to women for unisex hat types.
Only fashion hats can be kept in because they basically become part of your hairdo. I suppose if a guy is wearing a fascinator with his hair pinned in he can leave it on if he wants too.
Again the last to eat is not applied to everyone, it is the patriarch, matriarch, or in the military the higher ranking individual.
That’s if they offer to cook you up something special. But if dinner is there, you’re supposed to (I dunno why) make one polite demurral "No, I couldn’t, really…) then accept if they insist.
You wait until the hostess raises her fork. Jeez, I can’t believe you don’t know that.
What about being asked to take your shoes off when visiting for dinner or the evening. Irritates me no end.
Some people are neat freaks, that keep the carpet clean. I have no problem with it, if they are nice about it and dont act like “well *of course you always *do that!”
I was taught to stand when being introduced to someone and shaking their hand, and always do it. However, I was never explicitly taught to remove a glove before shaking. I somehow figured it out on my own. I clearly remember the occasion, in winter, when I was about to shake someone’s hand while wearing my gloves, and in that instant realizing that it would be disrespectful to leave the glove on, and quickly pulling it off before shaking. I later discovered that, in fact, my “natural” instinct was proper etiquette, for exactly the reason I had imagined.
Standing is a general mark of respect: people stand when a judge enters the courtroom, and in the presence of monarchs, presidents, heads of state, religious leaders, etc. Doing so when meeting an ordinary person in ordinary settings is likewise a mark of respect, although traditionally ladies were excused for reasons that would undoubtedly seem sexist today. (I wonder if Miss Manners has opined on this recently.)
Another old school rule of etiquette is that gentlemen rise whenever a lady enters or leaves the room, or when dining out, comes to or leaves the table. You can see this in old movies occasionally, and I have been known to do it once in a while, sometimes eliciting comment (usually positive).
As for punctuality, being early to a business meeting, a show, or a public event, or to a meeting with friends at a restaurant is generally okay, but being early to a private dinner party is at least as rude as being late. You run the risk of interrupting their preparations. If I arrive early for a dinner party, I’ll wait in the car until a minute or two after the time of the invitation. Of course, in the case of many non-dinner parties among friends, being “on time” is being early: arriving 30, 60, or more minutes after the nominal starting time may be expected.
Here’s one my father taught me. In public, a gentleman never greets a lady of his acquaintance, especially if she is with other people. He allows her to recognize and greet him if she chooses. The rationale is that she may have reasons for not wanting others to know that she knows the gentleman.
I went to a friend’s large party a number of years ago, and brought flowers from my yard. He was surprised to receive them, as not a single other person brought anything.
I’ve seen a couple of old movies in which a woman enters, and the man, seated, says “You’re looking beautiful, so you’ll excuse me if I remain seated.” The implication was that he had an erection.
Rather interesting when you have photogrey prescription lenses.
Shoes off in the house. (Midwest, West)
Friends enter through the garage, which usually opens into a mudroom. Only strangers enter through the front door. This isn’t a taboo, it’s just observed fact. (Midwest, West)
I stand when I shake someone’s hand. I’m not too sure about the last part. In a casual setting if I’m standing and I’m meeting someone who continues to sit; I don’t even think I’d give it a second thought other than to wonder of you’re lazy or handicapped.
As a (former} collegiate Umpire, I was taught to remove my sunglasses when talking with coaches. I kind of follow that in day-to-day life. If I have to talk directly to someone, I’d usually remove them. I think wearing sunglasses indoors generally makes you look like a douche. I say generally because of transition lenses, etc. Plus like other people in this thread, I’ve done it myself. When I was on a vacation in Ireland, my prescription glasses broke; so I had to wear my prescription sunglasses everywhere. I would mostly just wear them long enough to see a menu or read something; and then push them up on my head while I didn’t need them
I generally sit last because I’m the guy holding a door open for others and it just occurs naturally. If I’m with a group of people sitting at a restaurant, It would cause more chaos to try to ‘force’ sitting or being served last. I think that one is just a little silly… I don’t know how I could have a chance to be served in any particular order, let alone being served last. Eating last seems a little forced also. That being said, I won’t eat until everyone is served so we can begin eating together. A side story on politeness while eating. My late father in law, was the epitome of politeness. This is a guy who in his late 80s would stand up if a women entered the room because she might want to sit in his chair. He wise that nice and thoughtful in everything he did. Now the flip side. During meal conversations he would completely stop what he was doing, put his silverware down and converse with you. He would then pick up his fork and knife and begin to eat again until he was to say something; in which case he would set down his silverware again, to converse. Super polite? Absolutely. Did everyone finish dinner WAY before he did? Again; ABSOLUTELY. The guy hardly ever finished a meal in his life. My moral of the story is kind of like good driving… sometimes breaking convention and going with the flow is more important than following all the rules.
Yeah this one is a sign of the times. Back when the only type of hat you wore was felt hat of some sort, then you would take it off. Today’s days of baseball caps, etc. I don’t adhere to this one too much. If I’m going into church, then yes; but If I’m going into a mall? It’s not going to happen.
Word. Any pedant can follow rules, politeness is about applying empathy (which just happens to dictate behavior patterns).
Same here. Makes me uncomfortable, and it’s just too casual for anything but family or very good friends.
My wife and I, both the same age and raised in New Zealand, encountered an odd little clash of cultures / learned behaviors with regards to taking food / drink contributions to a party.
I’d been taught that whatever you took was left there, whether or not it got opened, part consumed… whatever. And if offered to take back anything you’d politely refuse.
Her family were very often involved in large communal meals with people contributing victuals. (Dad was a Methodist minister.) Her expectation was that at the end of the gathering people would definitely take away leftovers… even things they didn’t bring! :eek:
The first time this happened to us as a couple she was happily chatting with our host and gathering up things to take away and I was totally mortified and trying to get her to put everything back and leave. :smack: