Let’s see, one is an intential inflicting of guilt upon the family for a complex issue and the other is merely a prayer.
What do you not understand about that SJ?
Please edit “intential” to read “intentional.” Thanks.
Now that that’s out of the way:
SJ: You can’t seriously believe that my reasoned, rational, and point-by-point refutation of bluebird’s incredibly bad bashing (and I use “bad” in both meanings: as in “not nice” and "not competent) of the LDS. But if you do, oh well, everyone’s a right to their beliefs.
Drat. Please add after “the LDS” the following words: “was passionate.”
For the record: Smilingjaws is the sock puppet user name for bluebird, the incredible bigot of yore, who was not swayed by such minor things as facts. Said bluebird user name is now an inactive account. Gee, ain’t that too bad.
Okatym posted 03-03-2000 10:19 AM
And just where was his “poor family” when he needed them?
CKDextHavn posted 03-03-2000 12:06 PM
I disagree. People don’t choose to be homosexual.
CalifBoomer posted 03-03-2000 10:21 PM
Society has placed homosexuals in a victim status; Otto is imply pointing out what already exists.
CalifBoomer posted 03-03-2000 11:34 PM
He wasn’t equating his “liufestyle” with blacks, he was equating his treatment with the treatment of blacks.
Monty posted 03-04-2000 11:38 AM
And how is anyone supposed to know it? Either define it, or don’t use it.
CalifBoomer posted 03-05-2000 05:37 PM
The phrase “men who lay with men as with women are an abomination unto the Lord and shall be put to death” doesn’t sound familiar to you?
You have claimed that none one else is advocating death fort homosexuals.
Okatym posted 03-06-2000 01:26 PM
We also have the right to argue against religions we don’t agree with.
[quoe]But just because we don’t agree with their religious beliefs, why belittle or demean people who try to elevate their behaviours based on their religion?
[/quote]
Well, if someone considers making people miserable because of their orientation “elevating” their behaviors, you bet I’ll belittle him. And I’ll do it because I think that that sort of behavior is reprehensible.
Because it’s human nature, when seeing something that one considers to be evil, to try to stop it.
I don’t think that anyone here expects change, but many want change.
Exactly.
I’m not condemning anyone (I’m not even a Mormon), but how do you like it when they tell you that your behaviour is evil? Are you saying that you have the right to indignation over their beliefs and would press them to change, but they don’t have the right to the same? Is your cause “purer” or more just than theirs because you believe what they are doing is “evil”?
HMMMM…sounds familiar.
Oh, please. The title of this thread is “Mormons claim a victim”.
Why would people be so willing to blame the Mormons, his family, and community for this death rather than blame the sickness which actually caused it? To force a change is the only reason.
That would work well if you were of legal age of consent, independent, free-thinking and not pressured by anyone else. However, as has been pointed out, a religious community is much more than just a theology, and obviously the man who killed himself didn’t see himself as having that choice; otherwise, surely he would have opted to bow out of Mormonism than kill himself.
Is the Mormon church solely responsible for this man’s death? Of course not, although he he seemed to think so. Did the church contribute to the mindset that sent him over the edge? Yes.
Esprix
I wouldn’t want the Mormons to change one whit, but I would want a gay Mormon who is contemplating suicide because of his conflicts to know that he has other choices besides killing himself. Maybe making more people aware of things like this might save someone’s life. You never know…
And, just to clarify, what “sickness” are you referring to - homosexuality or depression?
Esprix
So would I.
Do you believe that homosexuality is a sickness? Do you blame his suicide on the fact that he was gay? I don’t. My defense of the Mormons is in spite of my empathy for this man and the pain he suffered.
I was referring to his depression. Depressed people have distorted thinking. Those distorted thoughts cause self-destructive actions. Those actions are devastating to everyone he left behind.
{hee hee} You’re barking up the wrong tree - I’m gay myself. I was just asking for a clarification on your use of the word “sickness,” as it wasn’t clear which you meant.
This is not aimed at you, but at everyone - do you think the Mormon community looked at this incident as it truthfully was, and how the deceased meant it to be seen (as evidenced by the note he left), or do you think they just ignored it or covered it up or made it out to seem to be something other than what it was? In other words, did the Mormons say to each other, “What have we done by contributing to this man’s pain?” or did they say, “We pity him for not being strong enough in his beliefs?” I don’t think self-examination occurred here.
Esprix
Oh, dear. I hate to post more bad news, but I found this on PlanetOut.com (3/15/00):
Anybody else read anything about this?
Esprix