The Mythical, Reasonable, Ex

The BBQ Pit
1

I started a thread in IMHO the other day (can’t find it now, for some reason) about my ex and the small dilemma we were facing. He wanted to take the boys camping, leaving Friday morning, but our oldest son had a band concert Friday night, and couldn’t go until Saturday.
Figuring he’s always been a reasonable sort, I offered to meet him halfway to the campsite on Saturday, so Elderpoet could do his concert. (Very Big Deal concert, his first jazz solo, etc, so he couldn’t miss it, even if I would’ve let him.)
So. Ex comes to get our other son, meets me outside, and says he’s thought it over, and the conversation goes something like this:

Ex: “…so I figure, it might teach Elderpoet a lesson if he has to miss camping this time.”

Me, Internal Voice: “Lesson? Such as…life sucks when your parents are divorced? THAT lesson?”
Me, Aloud Voice: “Oh?”

Ex: “Well, y’know, about how you gotta have priorities and stuff? Like that.”
Me, Internal Voice: “Or, maybe about how your DAD had screwed-up priorities, evidenced by the fact that he can’t arrange his schedule to hear his son play his FIRST JAZZ SOLO???”
Me, Aloud Voice (this is, I find, the most effective way to deal with him): “Oh?”

Ex: “Y’know, like a Life Lesson, sorta.”
Me, Internal Voice: “Ohmygodhe’sserious…A Life Lesson! Whahahaha! Like…like…When my dad opens his mouth, my stepmom’s voice comes out? THAT sorta lesson???”
Me, Aloud Voice: “This is important. He’s only just started on trombone, and he’s good enough to solo already, and it is a Big Deal. He’s GIFTED at this, and I don’t wanna discourage him. If I have to, I’ll bring him down myself, because it’s not fair to penalize him for being involved in MUSIC.”

Ex: Nods head vigorously, agreeing with everything I say (this is why you can’t argue with the man, he agrees with everything).

So, today, after a phenomenal concert last night, I take him down to the campsite. It was a fine trip, we enjoyed it, etc…then when we got there, all the grownups, Dad included, were sitting around maybe 20 feet from where I stopped the van. We got out for a minute to say hi to my other son, and guess what?

His dad didn’t even SAY HI TO HIM.
Didn’t turn around to wave, nothing. Totally ignored him.

I. Am. Livid. This is your SON, you idiot. Someone you would want to, oh, maybe ACKNOWLEDGE when he arrives. Because one of these days he is going to be all grown up and you will never, ever have this chance back, and when that day comes, asshole, I hope you REMEMBER that you ignored him when he arrived that nice sunny day.

Asshole. What on earth was I thinking.

sigh

2

You did a good job of keeping the inner voices inside, especially under those circumstances.

Because I’m with you all the way here. What has this guy stuffed into his cranial cavity? Because it sure ain’t brains, let alone the normal sort of affection and pride a father might feel for his son.

The damned fool should have wanted to hear his son perform solo.

If his heart was sufficiently defective that he didn’t want to, he still should have had the sense to attend, play the part of the proud father, and say all the right things. Then take the boys camping the next morning.

Failing that, the last thing he should have wanted to do was to penalize his son for having the combination of talent and discipline to do something like this. ‘Life lesson’?! Where the flying fuck do people get such ridiculous notions?

And then the idiot doesn’t even take the trouble to welcome his son when you get him there.

And if this sorta stuff becomes a habit on his part - or already is:

Ten years from now, when Elderpoet is on his own, and has long since decided it isn’t worth the trouble to give Dad the time of day, Ex will probably blame you for turning his son against him. Ignore him. There will be no clue stick heavy enough to beat into his head the realization that he managed to do it all by himself.

3

The child in me wonders how thoroughly you have pounded it into Elderpoet’s head that his father’s assholery is not because of some failing on his (Elderpoet) behalf. The sort of thing your ex is doing could have really awful effects on him.

4

In case it was not clear (I’ve been doing a lot of unclear posts of late…) … the pounding into EP’s head that it ain’t his fault is not meant to be a criticism of you but a criticism of the ex. No blame or anything of that sort was intended to be directed anywhere closer to you than the ex.

{{{bodypoet and kidlins}}}

5

You are one remarkable person. I can’t believe you were able to maintain control under the circumstances. It sounds as if your Ex is in a “reality” that is completely foreign to your own (thank God for you). I do think it is fantastic that you very much want your Ex to have every opportunity to be a good Father and to nurture your Son. It is very commendable that you prioritize your son’s interests over your own, the way a good parent should.

6

I’m really sorry to hear that.
I think my SO’s father was like that.
Here’s hoping that the kids won’t turn out the same or be adversely affected by it.
I must say your son is lucky to have you, though; I think my SO’s mother wasn’t as half as supportive and guiding as you are.

7

What. An. Asshole.

Kudos to you for not going off the deep end. God knows I would’ve in that situation, possibly with illegal results.

8

You are a wonder of restraint. My ex has exhibited much of the same behavior under the influence of wife #2, and I must admit that I have not always been able to control himself. He has even admitted to me, now that she has divorced him, that she made his life miserable if he spent too much time with the kids…and I even have copies of emails she sent him complaining about how spoiled the kids were. But that’s for another rant.

Let us know how the boy is when he comes home…I’m so worried that he was ignored all weekend. Keep encouraging his music, and good luck.

9

You guys are so nice. It’s hard to know sometimes if I am doing the right thing or if I really need to blow a gasket at this man.

I try to keep it very low-key with the boys, no negative comments about the ex or his wife, etc, but this time I am going to ask if his dad came around (after I left) to greet him. I’m hoping that he just didn’t want to appear “friendly” with me–I think his wife would have his head if he even glanced my direction while her family was about. If he ignored him beyond that, I’m going to flay him. Nicely.

’punha I gotcha. I’m trying hard…the trick is to instill all the self-confidence and trust, etc, that I can, so that they figure out (without much help from me, because it’s sorta counterproductive to just tell 'em, “Your dad’s a jerk”) the whole thing on their own. They are good kids, and oddly enough, he is (usually, as long as it’s convenient) a good dad. He loves them, but unfortunately he reflects whatever attitude he hears the most, and his wife gets her back up whenever there is a conflict like this, so he hears a lot of negative stuff.

He’s pulled this “Life Lesson” crap before, under similar circumstances–usually when there is a conflict between responsibilities here (school or band) and weekend visitation. I keep trying to explain to him that he isn’t asking Elderpoet to choose between activities–he is REALLY asking him to choose between Mom and Dad, and that is a terrible position to put him in. I absolutely refuse to do it…so I end up with some really long drives. :wink:

The really irritating thing is, everyone who doesn’t know him like I do thinks he is the greatest guy in the world. My dad absolutely adores him, to the point where I am basically disowned for divorcing him. They are sort of in the same boat, the SS Clueless.

I’ll post again after they get home tomorrow.
~k

10

Okay, since I’m on a roll and in a mood already, this is the kind of history these two (the ex and his wife) have:

When Middlepoet was about 5, he had been to his dad’s alone for a few weekends while Elderpoet was on a trip with his grandfather. After a visit, he would come home and tell me that he should have his own room, he shouldn’t wear clothes from Goodwill, we eat out too much, etc. It took me a while to figure out that he was repeating what he heard from Dad and Stepmom, and in fact, they would say “Tell your mom (insert idiotic, obnoxious comment here).”

THEN, one afternoon he asked me if I was going to have a baby. I said, no, why?

Because, he said, Daddy and Stepmom said that you shouldn’t because if you did our house is so messy THE BABY WOULD DIE.

Can you even imagine the mentality of people who would say this kind of shit to a 5 year old child???

Can you imagine having to call a grown man and explain to him that he really shouldn’t tell a child that if his mom had a baby it would die? Good heavens. And when I confronted him, he said, “Oh, we were just joking around.” I told him, you have these kids four days a month. You don’t have TIME to talk about ME. Concentrate on your relationship <<you idiot>>.

Oh, that inner voice is creeping in again, I see…

~k

11

bodypoet,
You are phenomenal in your ability to keep your focus on goals and issues of essential importance. I’m very happy to know that your children should profit handsomely through your genuine, nurturing love and the example you present to them.

12

I would love to hear his side.

I would think about divorce counselling.

13

If you heard his side, you would probably think he’s a great dad. He’s convincing that way. He would put on a sad face and tell you how much me misses his boys, etc…without mentioning that I have given him free rein as far as visitation goes or that he can get the kids anytime, for as long as he wants them, he can call them every night if he wants, etc. He promises to do all this, and doesn’t follow through.

He did attend counseling with Elderpoet a few times. The therapist saw through him and his empty promises pretty quickly. As far as divorce counselling goes, no thanks. I don’t need to get along with him better. Frankly, we usually get along very well…he pays his support on time, he’s a trustworthy parent as far as their safety goes, etc. I work to be very, very agreeable and flexible about visitation, etc, I really do. We’re both laid back, and thing usually work out pretty well.

He just needs to think like a parent instead of thinking like a guy who doesn’t have kids.
~k

14

And you sound much like my ex. She thinks she gives free rein as well but the reality is that my time with the kids is a lower priority then anything else that might come up. She thinks she is flexible but the reality is that from week to week I never know when I will be able to see them. It is pretty tough to go from being a parent to having a dating relationship with your children. I do think he is wrong to the extent that he seems to be blaming his son but I can sure understand the frustration.

You seem to have a clear understanding that trombone recitals are important to your son but you aren’t demonstrating much recognition that his relationship with his father is also important. If you did perhaps you could contemplate what you might do to help.

Its likely that I am completely wrong about you but it is probably worth spending a few moments thinking about.

15

Been there with the nasty comments sent home through the kid. It took months for us to undo the damage. It was ugly, the kid was sad and I was seething. We finally told him not to worry about all these comments and that his business was being a kid, not mucking around with a bunch of grown up problems. It seemed to settle things in his mind a bit. I really feel for you and the kids, though.

Ned, she said she drove her son up to the campsite after the concert. I think she did compromise and the rest of the family didn’t have to wait until the next day. Not his dad, who could have come down from camping, seen the concert and brought the kid back.

16

Oh God, I’m laughing so hard! Sorry…just brings back memories! Except in my case, it was “you should go shopping at Goodwill, and here’s some coupons for groceries” No money, just coupons! Oh, and I did get that “you eat out too much”. Of course, when my son was living in the BASEMENT because we can’t afford a three-bedroom, the ex said I should move somewhere cheaper. Cheaper!!! Cheaper means a two bedroom apartment with NO basement! And only $50 a month cheaper.

Sometimes I thank God that, even though my ex was given every opportunity to spend time with the kids, they only had to go to his place and deal with That Woman (they refused to call her their step-mom…that implied some sort of positive relationship) about once a year. Of course, they felt rejected by their dad, but at least they didn’t have to put up with her abuse. Case in point…when my ex was on reserve duty in Bosnia, he sent my son a packet of maps, brouchures, etc from Bosnia, that explained what the area was like, etc. My son opened the envelope, saw that there was just a bunch of papers to read and tossed it aside for later. I took it and flipped through the pile, and found copies of emails That Woman had sent to the ex, pretty much ripping me and the kids to shreds, saying they were spoiled rotten, ungrateful, greedy,etc, etc. I of course didn’t show these to my son…for some reason I want to try and preserve their relationship…but I sure ripped ex a new one the next time I saw him. Claims they were put in there by mistake. My ass they were!

Hope your sons come home happy and cheerful…too bad your whole weekend alone had to be spoiled by this.

17

Nope, nothing like your ex, apparently, Ned. This is my arrangement with my ex:
He has arranged visitation every other weekend and two weeks in summer. (This is the legal agreement.)
I encourage him, if he wants, to keep the kids an extra night or so (longer if possible) whenever their weekend coincides with a school break; or to rearrange visitation so that their long weekends are on the weekends he has them.
He can have them, literally, for half the summer IF he wants. For several years, he would keep them for maybe 4 days (instead of 2 weeks). Now they go camping, so he usually gets them for 3 or 4 weeks, which allows them to go on big trips. I’m okay with all this.

ANYtime he needs to rearrange visitation (which is fairly often, several times/year), I go with it. To his credit, he is equally flexible if I need to switch weekends for some reason.

He knows exactly when he can see them: on his weekends, and any other time he cares to call or stop by. I’ve offered to have them go out for pizza once a week or something, but he doesn’t want to make the trip up here (we’re about an hour away), or to meet me halfway so that I can drop them at Pizza Hut or something. I’ve offered to bring them down for day visits when I’m in his town, or to figure out other ways for them to get together. His response is usally geared toward how busy he is, how he really doesn’t have time, or, in one memorable instance, how he does “have a life, y’know.”

Visits with dad are top priority. School/music is also top priority. My argument with my ex is that he wanted to make my son CHOOSE one or the other. And I don’t think that is a fair choice for a fifteen year old kid. I’m NOT keeping him from visiting; if his dad had his druthers, Elderpoet would have had to give up either the concert (which would affect his grades, as well), OR the camping trip. So that he would learn a LESSON.

I’m sorry that your visitation with your kids is inconsistent. You sound like a parent who wants to be involved, and it must be terribly frustrating to not know from one week to the next when you will see them again. Unfortunately, I’m not convinced that my ex wants to be that involved…it’s nice when it’s convenient for him, but if it’s a hassle, he’d rather not mess with it.

Trust me, I’ve given the whole thing lots and LOTS of thought over the last 10 years. Geez, I drove the kid four hours to the campground, what should I have done? Tell him his dad wants him to choose, and let him be hurt by that? Not gonna happen. He will figure out his dad eventually; I’m not going to be instrumental in that process if I can help it.

Whew. We gotta remember that we aren’t divorced from each other, lest we start throwing things shortly. :wink:

~k

18

Yes, it does sound quite different.

Obviously my comments had little to do with your situation and everything to do with my own festering pit thread.

19

bodypoet, you are a model of self-restraint. Asking your child to choose between performing his first solo and one night camping with you, with punishment for choosing the concert is quite deserving of a boot to the head.

I know you already know this, but you’ll be glad for your strategy in the long run. Elderpoet will figure out that his dad is on a different planet than he is fairly soon. Then he’ll be able to define the relationship on his terms, and decide how much his father is in his life.

I also have a father on a different planet, who was far less in my life than Elderpoet’s dad. My mom never said a bad word about him, and she is still much nicer about him than I am. If you ask him, he was a perfect father, and an all-around great guy. If you ask me, he never paid child support, was barely a part of my life, and never showed up to a single one of my band concerts until he came to college football games to watch me in the marching band (because then there was something cool to take pictures of, and brag to his friends about.)

BTW – WAY TO GO ELDERPOET!!! Congratulations to him on his first jazz solo! That’s really awesome – and those trombone players are a great group of people!

Winkie, former trombone player :wink:

20

Elderpoet says that his dad talked to him after I left, when “I walked over there where he was” at least. I’m not quite sure I believe it, but I won’t push the issue with him.
They seem to have had a good time. If there were problems, he won’t tell me for a few days. He’s very concerned that I not be mad at his dad, so I usually don’t question him…but eventually it comes up if there have been problems.
I’m still pissed, on general terms…you know, a dad oughta speak to his son when he arrives, etc…but at least things seemed to have gone well beyond that.
You all have been great, thanks for all the support. It’s nice to know that I’m not alone in all this.
~k