The Office: 10/4 "Dunder-Mifflin Infinity" (open spoilers)

[Rubystreak]

@acsenray

And when she feels threatened, she fights back. Phyllis is happy that Jim and Pam are together. She’s happy for them, but she’s going to protect her turf, and if that means laying down the law for sweet Pam, then that’s how it is.

Seriously? Her comment was “whomever you’re sleeping with THIS WEEK.” There is a not-so-subtle implication that Pam was a slut. It was a very bitchy comment. I agree with others who said that ripping off Pam’s wedding was also kind of bitchy. Those were Pam’s ideas, and she’d had a painful break up of that engagement. Seeing the aborted wedding come to life was selfish and insensitive of Phyllis. Not cool.

I don’t have particularly strong feelings about Phyllis either way, but I don’t think anyone in this thread has been overly harsh about her. She’s got the capacity to be catty and self-centered, and everyone who has worked in an office has dealt with someone like her.

[D_Odds]

@acsenray

I don’t see this as having anything to do with Pam. Phyllis liked what she saw and she used it without really hurting anyone. A wedding plan is not a creative work protected by copyright law. It’s no crime; all those wedding accessories are sold on the free market. In one year or 10 years or 20 years, who in the world is going to care that Phyllis’s wedding choices were based on Pam’s? No harm, no foul.

Maybe it shows that Phyllis not very creative or original, but I don’t think it shows she has some complex about Pam.

You must be single, or perhaps you eloped. Definitely a guy, that’s for sure.

Stealing a wedding design is about 100x worse than purposefully buying the same dress and wearing it to the same function.

[Acsenray]

@D_Odds

You must be single, or perhaps you eloped.

No and no.

Definitely a guy, that’s for sure.

Ya got me there.

Stealing a wedding design is about 100x worse than purposefully buying the same dress and wearing it to the same function.

Stealing? It’s like “stealing” the name Seven Costanza. People can name their kids what they want. They can buy the wedding centerpieces and invitations they want. It’s commerce, pure and simple.

Anyway, Pam’s wedding had already been cancelled. So there was nothing to steal from.

@Rubystreak

Seriously? Her comment was “whomever you’re sleeping with THIS WEEK.” There is a not-so-subtle implication that Pam was a slut. It was a very bitchy comment.

I agree that it was on the bitchy side, but I don’t agree that she was calling Pam a slut. She was making a point in a perhaps trenchant manner that was calculated to get Pam’s attention and show that she’s not joking.

I agree with others who said that ripping off Pam’s wedding was also kind of bitchy. Those were Pam’s ideas, and she’d had a painful break up of that engagement. Seeing the aborted wedding come to life was selfish and insensitive of Phyllis. Not cool.

Meh. It’s Phyllis’s party. She should buy the party crap she wants to buy. Pam’s party never happened, so the party crap she would have bought for it is two degrees removed from non-existent.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@D_Odds

You must be single, or perhaps you eloped. Definitely a guy, that’s for sure.

Stealing a wedding design is about 100x worse than purposefully buying the same dress and wearing it to the same function.

Really? Why? I don’t see anything wrong with stealing wedding ideas either, especially since Pam’s wedding never happened anyway. How is anybody harmed? Who cares about wedding ideas anyway? They all look the same to me. I definitely ccouldn’t care less if someone copied idas from my wedding. I probably wouldn’t even notice. I think it’s a strange thing to care about. There are people who actually get upset if someone uses the same napkin designs or floral arrangements they want for their own wedding? My God, that’s shallow.

For that matter, what’s wrong with wearing the same dress as somebody else?

[corkboard]

Although I can’t believe I’m actually still contributing to this extended discussion of the behavior of a fictional sitcom character, I think the point is Phyllis’ actions are, at worst, insensitive. True- it’s not really stealing to copy someone’s wedding reception ideas. However, in a small office environment where everyone thinks of everyone else, to some degree, as ‘family’, it was probably insensitive for her to use all of the ideas from Pam’s wedding. After the Pam/Roy cancellation debacle, it reopened the wound a bit.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@McNew

Although I can’t believe I’m actually still contributing to this extended discussion of the behavior of a fictional sitcom character, I think the point is Phyllis’ actions are, at worst, insensitive. True- it’s not really stealing to copy someone’s wedding reception ideas. However, in a small office environment where everyone thinks of everyone else, to some degree, as ‘family’, it was probably insensitive for her to use all of the ideas from Pam’s wedding. After the Pam/Roy cancellation debacle, it reopened the wound a bit.

Forgive me if I remember wrong- but wasn’t it even on the same day?

[Acsenray]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Forgive me if I remember wrong- but wasn’t it even on the same day?

You mean the wedding date? I don’t think so. Pam and Roy were supposed to get married over the summer, I think. Phyllis and Bob’s wedding was in the fall or winter.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@acsenray

You mean the wedding date? I don’t think so. Pam and Roy were supposed to get married over the summer, I think. Phyllis and Bob’s wedding was in the fall or winter.

Oh, Ok!

[Hey_It_s_That_Guy]

Doesn’t Phyllis also have a small (or not-so-small) crush on Jim? When Michael took the ladies to the mall last season and Karen bought something at Victoria’s Secret, I recall Phyllis saying something like “Oh, Jim will love that!” And in a conversation (or more likely a one-on-one session to the camera) about making short lists of people that both parties agree it would be okay to sleep with while in a relationship, didn’t she say something about Jim being on her list? I’m quite positive I didn’t dream this or read it in some weird Office fanfic.

[Rubystreak]

@acsenray

Stealing? It’s like “stealing” the name Seven Costanza. People can name their kids what they want. They can buy the wedding centerpieces and invitations they want. It’s commerce, pure and simple.

No, it’s not. It was Pam’s idea for her wedding and I’m sure she invested it with lots of emotion and personal touches. She is an artist at heart. To have Phyllis rip it off must have been extremely weird for her, esp. since people from work even commented on it. Either Phyllis is totally clueless about how it would make Pam feel, which makes her kind of a social moron, or she didn’t give a crap-- which makes her, in this situation, a bitch.

You gotta understand, I just planned a wedding myself this summer. It’s a lot of work and it becomes very personal. If my wedding were called off and one of my co-workers jacked it lock, stock, and barrel, I’d be quite offended and hurt by her insensitivity and I’d wonder if she were that idiotic or that mean. YMMV, but I think it was clearly shown that Pam felt bad about it, indicating that the writers wanted us to think Pam was wondering along similar lines.

Anyway, Pam’s wedding had already been cancelled. So there was nothing to steal from.

How about Pam’s ideas? They do get pretty specific. Just because the wedding didn’t happen doesn’t mean it’s not her concept, and the cancellation of it a source of hurt and embarrassment for her. I can’t believe you don’t see that. The producers of the show obviously did, because it was played to be a very weird, creepy thing to do on Phyllis’ part.

I agree that it was on the bitchy side, but I don’t agree that she was calling Pam a slut. She was making a point in a perhaps trenchant manner that was calculated to get Pam’s attention and show that she’s not joking.

No, I really think she was implying that Pam sleeps with a different guy in the office every week. Yes, she slept with two men who work at D-M, only one of whom has accounts, so Phyllis’ outrageous hyperbole was clearly over the top bitchery. She’s not a nice lady.

Meh. It’s Phyllis’s party. She should buy the party crap she wants to buy. Pam’s party never happened, so the party crap she would have bought for it is two degrees removed from non-existent.

Are you a guy? Or have you never planned a wedding? It’s a deeply personal thing, which you don’t seem to get at all.

This is one of those situations where someone else views something totally differently from me, and I think they might be watching a different version of the show or something. It seems totally obvious to me that Phyllis is kind of a bitchy weirdo, though everyone at D-M is pretty off.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

I admit I don’t get it. How does somebody else using the same ideas hurt the one who thought of them? They should be flattered.

[Rubystreak]

@Diogenes the Cynic

I admit I don’t get it. How does somebody else using the same ideas hurt the one who thought of them? They should be flattered.

Maybe this is one of those man/woman things? Because it would bother the fuck out of me to see someone performing MY wedding without me in it. It’s just creepy and I think it would be pretty awful. A reminder of your lost hope for your own wedding. Does that make sense?

[PunditLisa]

@Diogenes the Cynic

I admit I don’t get it. How does somebody else using the same ideas hurt the one who thought of them? They should be flattered.

Try asking “Is it okay to name my baby the same name as my good friend?” and you’ll be AMAZED at the answers. Apparently some people are very proprietary with names.

BTW, have you checked out any of the outtakes from the show? Be glad they were removed, especially Ryan ordering Michael to get him a cup of water. I don’t know why NBC decided to extend these first two shows to one hour, but I hope they return it to the usual half hour soon. “Infinity” could have been hysterical had they cut out half of it, especially the gift basket stuff.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Rubystreak

Maybe this is one of those man/woman things? Because it would bother the fuck out of me to see someone performing MY wedding without me in it. It’s just creepy and I think it would be pretty awful. A reminder of your lost hope for your own wedding. Does that make sense?

How is it “your” wedding if you aren’t the one getting married? As for Pam’s “lost” wedding. she was the one who cancelled it so why would seeing somone else get married be painful to her? it’s not like she got stood up or anything.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes the Cynic

How is it “your” wedding if you aren’t the one getting married? As for Pam’s “lost” wedding. she was the one who cancelled it so why would seeing somone else get married be painful to her? it’s not like she got stood up or anything.

It’s one thing to have a friend borrow an idea or two. But to walk in and find your wedding recreated by someone else would hurt.

Does a person have the right to do it? Of course.
Might it hurt someone else’s feelings? Probably.
Is it something a friend would do? Probably not.

My best friend (and my maid of honor) clearly had a wedding inspired by mine- but the details were different and she made it her own. I was flattered. If she had worn the same dress, had the same flowers and cake etc, I would be surprised and a bit put off.
I guess I don’t get the confusion. A wedding is the sum of 100s of individual decisions (even a small 30 person one as mine). It ends ofup feeling personal and reflecting your own sense of style and taste. To copy many details of a friend’s wedding (even if it got called off, the planning was done- the act of creation) is just not what people do.

You really can’t see that?

[Geobabe]

@Diogenes the Cynic

As for Pam’s “lost” wedding. she was the one who cancelled it so why would seeing somone else get married be painful to her? it’s not like she got stood up or anything.

Dude, seriously? Ending a relationship is painful, even when you were the one who initiated the breakup. And when there were a lot of hopes and dreams associated with it, as there usually are when one is planning on marrying someone, yes, it can be difficult to see someone else walk down the aisle. And even more so when the person you really love is with someone else. Not everyone will be affected to the same degree, but to feel nothing would be extremely unusual, to say the least.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

I guess I don’t get the confusion. A wedding is the sum of 100s of individual decisions (even a small 30 person one as mine). It ends ofup feeling personal and reflecting your own sense of style and taste. To copy many details of a friend’s wedding (even if it got called off, the planning was done- the act of creation) is just not what people do.

You really can’t see that?

[Shrug] I don’t want to belabor this, but no, I really don’t. I don’t see how somebody copying you takes anything away from you. I guess this must really be a man/woman thing because that just would not bother me at all.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Diogenes the Cynic

[Shrug] I don’t want to belabor this, but no, I really don’t. I don’t see how somebody copying you takes anything away from you. I guess this must really be a man/woman thing because that just would not bother me at all.

Well, to back on point…

I think the writers included in a negative way- Pam was a little hurt and didn’t cast Phyliss in the best light.

I hope we can agree on that!

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Well, to back on point…

I think the writers included in a negative way- Pam was a little hurt and didn’t cast Phyliss in the best light.

I hope we can agree on that!

Yep. It bothered Pam. Phyllis has a slight bitchy streak.

[Rubystreak]

@Diogenes the Cynic

[Shrug] I don’t want to belabor this, but no, I really don’t. I don’t see how somebody copying you takes anything away from you. I guess this must really be a man/woman thing because that just would not bother me at all.

It’s not about taking anything away from anyone. It would hurt to watch your dream of a wedding (even if the marriage would not have been a dream and it’s better that it didn’t happen, a lot of women have a fantasy of the wedding, and put a lot of effort into creating that and making it real) enacted by someone else. All those “what a beautiful wedding, how creative, blah blah” should have been Pam’s. It would also highlight your own failures that resulted in you not getting married. It’s totally insensitive and Phyllis is kind of a bitch. Not actively 100% of the time (ala Angela), but she’s not very nice to Pam sometimes, and this was one example of that. I don’t think I’m out in left field on this.